When do you know it’s time to go to the vet?

[zina10]

You said that "wasn't the question" and rudeness isn't appreciated.

How can we answer your question without knowing if something is still off with the husbandry and whether your snake needs a vet visit. The only way to establish that is to know for sure what the husbandry is like, not just to take your word for it, esp. since you said "i think I know". Same as saying, I'm not really sure.

You have gotten a immense wealth of good advice. Based on the info you provided, which was needed. Members here spend a lot of time being helpful and typing out advice they typed out many times before. That is not being rude, that is being thorough

As to the delivery method of this advice. Some are very fluffy, others are more direct and to the point. Deborah might not serve a cake along with her advice but trust me, she is always spot on. Sometimes with a flurry of posts and answers, it is actually easier to pick the direct and to the point out.

I'm glad to see that you are now open to the help and see why more info was crucial.

Wish you good luck with your little noodle, a very pretty one indeed !!

[Cheesenugget]

Just curious, whoever gave you advice on correcting your husbandry, was it the same person(s) who told you not to feed live to snakes?

[udonsnoodle]

Thank you, I appreciate the insight. I do not appreciate you saying that I haven't tried anything, given that I've been adjusting the enclosure since it first became apparent to me that he was stressed. I asked about the vet because I didn't know, and I wanted to be informed. I read something on the internet that was apparently untrue, and I'm happy that there are people here to guide me and let me know that it wasn't true. That was my original question, and I'm sorry that it seemed like I was getting frustrated over people asking me about my husbandry, but my initial intention was just to have that point clarified and it felt like no one was making an effort to do so.

If you scroll up you'll see many descriptions of the enclosure, along with changes I have made. But I'll also copypaste them for you here.

If you're still curious I've got my hot side at 90 and my cool side at about 77 with a gradient between. 60% humidity. It's a big tank but he has so much foliage and so many small hides in there (identical on both hot side and cool side) that I've been told it's fine. He has two big water dishes. In my three and half weeks of having him, I've only handled him once to weigh him. He's in a quiet part of the house with little traffic. I have an acu rite hygrometer that I keep right in his tank. In the beginning I was taking temperature readings with an analogue thermometer and also going off what my thermostat was telling me, but I've since gotten a temperature gun and using that I read the surface of the substrate multiple times a day. I have two thermostats, one for an UTH and one for a CHE. The probes are between the bottom of the tank and the UTH, and directly under the CHE. I used to have the CHE over the UTH and kept it at 95, but I was informed that would just create one single very hot spot and the rest of his tank would be cool without a gradient so I moved the CHE to the center to create a higher ambient temperature (about 80) and kept the UTH on one side, now at around 90. My humidity also used to be low (45-50%) and it was a struggle to keep it up even with multiple water dishes, covering the top, etc until I started misting and keeping a wet towel on top and now I can keep it above 60%.

To answer a few of your other questions I haven't addressed, he has aspen substrate (I know it's not the best for humidity but I've read that it has other upsides, please let me know if I'm wrong). About two inches deep all around. He's in a glass tank. He now has four hides on each side. Two are way too large for him and I'm aware of that, so I consider them just more foliage. Four (two identical ones on each side) are snug and have small openings. The other two are just paper towel rolls that I put in when I heard of other people using them, and I thought he wouldn't like them because hides are only supposed to have only one opening, but they're the ones he uses most. He's asleep in the one on the cool side right now.

[udonsnoodle]

Yes and no...my source for all the information I've been getting until now was another ball python forum. While asking about feeding problems, where I got most of the pointers about my husbandry, one person recommended that I try giving my snake live mice and they were immediately jumped on by a number of other people who said it's unsafe for the snake. After googling it, that seems to be the general consensus, but if you have an argument for live mice I would definitely like to hear it. Along with that I got some mixed answers over there about a few things that were concerning me, which is why I decided to ask this question here

[WhompingWillow]

Yes and no...my source for all the information I've been getting until now was another ball python forum. While asking about feeding problems, where I got most of the pointers about my husbandry, one person recommended that I try giving my snake live mice and they were immediately jumped on by a number of other people who said it's unsafe for the snake. After googling it, that seems to be the general consensus, but if you have an argument for live mice I would definitely like to hear it. Along with that I got some mixed answers over there about a few things that were concerning me, which is why I decided to ask this question here

It's completely possible to switch over BP's, especially when younger, to F/T when you get them without needing to try live. BUT your husbandry needs to be on point. (Is that a dead horse of a topic yet?) I have 8 BP's, most of which were getting fed live by their breeders. All successfully switched over to F/T mice right away and then F/T rats.

With that being said, if you do choose to feed live, with a snake as small as yours, an appropriately sized live mouse will likely not be able to do any damage, especially if you take the proper precautions (ie, supervising the feeding). Other members on here can give you more detailed advice on live feedings if you go that route.

You mentioned that your snake cruises - generally a sign that a) he's hungry or b) he's uncomfortable. How much does your snake weigh and what size hopper are you trying to feed?

You may have already done these steps, but this my feeding routine:

- Feed at night in a darkened room.
- Select appropriately sized F/T rodent. Place in ziploc bag.
- Place ziploc bag in very warm water until rodent is thawed.
- Let rodent warm up for a bit under a heat lamp in the snake room so that the room can be scented by the rodent.
- Blast nose/head of rodent with a hair dryer for 10 seconds and then immediately offer to snake on tongs, grabbing the rodent by the skin at the base of the head/neck.

Different snakes also have different personalities. A couple of mine at first showed no interest and actually seemed scared of the mouse. Sometimes leaving the mouse by the snake worked, sometimes stroking the mouse on the upper 1/3 of the snake worked, sometimes I needed to gently "boop" the nose of the snake with the mouse so they could be like, "Oh, that's food."

One more thing - stop messing around with the cage if the husbandry is where it needs to be. Don't disinfect plants, don't move things around, spot clean only if necessary. Just leave the snake completely alone for at least a week.

[Rvnhawk]

I have an acu rite hygrometer that I keep right in his tank. In the beginning I was taking temperature readings with an analogue thermometer and also going off what my thermostat was telling me, but I've since gotten a temperature gun and using that I read the surface of the substrate

I've also read that offering them food more frequently makes them stressed and less likely to eat, which is what the schedule comment was about. Is that not true?

Thanks!

I don’t know that anyone has noticed that you are measuring the temp at the surface of the substrate. You need to be measuring the temp under the substrate on the glass above the UTH. It may be much higher on the glass than 90°, and your snake will burrow at some point under the substrate.


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[Kira]

To answer your bedding question, aspen is terrible for humidity and doesn't really have benefits for ball pythons. I recommend switching over to a coconut based substrate like cocohusk or reptichip. It will hold in the humidity a lot better and looks more natural too.

[Zincubus]

To answer your bedding question, aspen is terrible for humidity and doesn't really have benefits for ball pythons. I recommend switching over to a coconut based substrate like cocohusk or reptichip. It will hold in the humidity a lot better and looks more natural too.

Aspen is terrible , period .

I detest the stuff with a vengeance.

It looks fake and unnatural, it gets all over the house carpets , it doesn't hold any humidity and it 'drains' the colour out of the snake ..


Orchid / Reptibark everytime for mine


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[Alex Lehner]

I had this same problem with my BP when I got him this summer. Exactly as you were describing-skinny when I first got him, wouldn't for for 3 weeks. I eventually broke down and got him a small live adult mouse, and he ate it immediately. Fed him live for a month or two, and he now is transitioned over to f/t. I know that doesnt answer your vet question, but might be a good way to get him to start eating again.

[Bogertophis]

Sorry, these answers are coming in faster than I can respond haha. I really really appreciate everyone's help! I'm super anxious about this because I love this little guy and if I lost him I'd be totally crushed.

A lot of people have been asking about why I'd want to take him to the vet and the answer is that I read in critical situations the vet can force feed them. I know that's going to cause more stress and I know that that's a last resort. I just have no idea when that should come into play. This is (quite obviously) my first ball python and after tons of google searches I haven't found anything really spelling out when you know this is necessary or not....

While I'm sure that some have taken their snake to the vet to be "force-fed", that's a really bad idea. First off "force" or "assist" feeding means pushing whole prey items into a dis-interested snake, in an un-natural setting and with lots of handling & travel by car. It's not only stressful, but very possible the snake will regurgitate by the time you get home. Making the whole thing pointless. But even at home, it's not a good idea...it can reinforce the snake's negative opinion of f/t prey. (think about it...)

While I'm not ever a fan of "force"/"assist" feeding a snake, I do find that tube-feeding liquid nourishment to a snake handled minimally & gently at home is very effective when it's truly warranted & done correctly. In any case, it's a last resort after fixing husbandry & exhaustive efforts to induce normal feeding behavior have failed. (it's a technique that is very useful for truly sick or injured snakes, or those exhausted from reproductive efforts, etc.)