Probe Placement spin-off

[SquirmyPug]

I'm sure there were other things that went into your decision but you certainly can have the thermostat probe inside the terrarium. I have mine in the substrate over the UTH. Some people will say it's ok but "can" have some problems in certain situations. I've done some testing and haven't had any issues like others have mentioned. Just because some people reccomend one way to do things doesn't mean it's the only way.

[Craiga 01453]

I'm sure there were other things that went into your decision but you certainly can have the thermostat probe inside the terrarium. I have mine in the substrate over the UTH. Some people will say it's ok but "can" have some problems in certain situations. I've done some testing and haven't had any issues like others have mentioned. Just because some people reccomend one way to do things doesn't mean it's the only way.

Very good point. Theres definitely more than one way to do things.
But....when keepers with years upon years of experience with thousands of snakes suggest avoiding dangerous situations, it's probably wise to take the advice. It's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" the probe will be moved, peed on, laid on, etc...which can all cause inaccurate readings and dangerous heat spikes.
Why learn the hard way when others have learned the hard way for you and are helping you to avoid the same disastrous results?

[SquirmyPug]

Very good point. Theres definitely more than one way to do things.
But....when keepers with years upon years of experience with thousands of snakes suggest avoiding dangerous situations, it's probably wise to take the advice. It's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" the probe will be moved, peed on, laid on, etc...which can all cause inaccurate readings and dangerous heat spikes.
Why learn the hard way when others have learned the hard way for you and are helping you to avoid the same disastrous results?

The probe can't move so that's not a problem. If it gets peed on, the pee is a very thin puddle under the probe and the substrate gets damp. It warms up quickly (it's already at least 80f and possibly warmer). If the snake lays on the probe it actually causes the heat to build up faster causing the thermostat to turn off power to the UTH.

From what I can tell, at some point someone who had some experience with snakes started telling people to put the probe under the terrarium and over the UTH and told people it's the only way to do it safely without actually testing or thinking about how heat travels. Thermal dynamics/ conductivity is something I have studied a lot. It's simply not true that putting the probe inside is as dangerous as some will have you think.

[Craiga 01453]

The probe can't move so that's not a problem. If it gets peed on, the pee is a very thin puddle under the probe and the substrate gets damp. It warms up quickly (it's already at least 80f and possibly warmer). If the snake lays on the probe it actually causes the heat to build up faster causing the thermostat to turn off power to the UTH.

From what I can tell, at some point someone who had some experience with snakes started telling people to put the probe under the terrarium and over the UTH and told people it's the only way to do it safely without actually testing or thinking about how heat travels. Thermal dynamics/ conductivity is something I have studied a lot. It's simply not true that putting the probe inside is as dangerous as some will have you think.

Hey, if you wanna do it your way, nobody can stop you. But experience speaks volumes.
If you think years of experience comes from not testing things, you're sadly mistaken.

If you wanna roll the dice with your snake, that's your call. But I see it as my responsibility to my snakes to provide them with the safest home I can. We have a choice, the animals don't.

[distaff]

There are various ways to deal with the probe. Some are obviously bad, some are the standard recommended placement, and others are good, but different.

From the OP's account, the BF himself asked for a critique, and then got peevish and defensive when the problem was pointed out.

We are all going to have disagreements in our personal relationships, but speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to live with someone who habitually initiates abrasive and energy draining interactions. I detest drama, and won't put up with adults acting like bratty eight year olds. Only the Op can decide if this typical on the guy's part, or just a particularly bad day.

[SquirmyPug]

Hey, if you wanna do it your way, nobody can stop you. But experience speaks volumes.
If you think years of experience comes from not testing things, you're sadly mistaken.

If you wanna roll the dice with your snake, that's your call. But I see it as my responsibility to my snakes to provide them with the safest home I can. We have a choice, the animals don't.

It's not rolling the dice. Obviously you're one of the people that thinks having the probe between the tank and UTH is the only "safest way". When you have the probe down there what happens when you insulate the substrate above it? The substrate gets hotter than normal until the probe catches up to the temperature change. When a snake is on top of the UTH that's exactly what happens except they are a little cooler, that is until they warm up. The snake is insulation over the UTH.

I don't know why you have a problem with me. All I'm saying is that having a probe inside isn't as dangerous as some people make it seem.

[Craiga 01453]

It's not rolling the dice. Obviously you're one of the people that thinks having the probe between the tank and UTH is the only "safest way". When you have the probe down there what happens when you insulate the substrate above it? The substrate gets hotter than normal until the probe catches up to the temperature change. When a snake is on top of the UTH that's exactly what happens except they are a little cooler, that is until they warm up. The snake is insulation over the UTH.

I don't know why you have a problem with me. All I'm saying is that having a probe inside isn't as dangerous as some people make it seem.

I have no problem with you at all. I don't even know you.

I just think it's silly to ignore advice of experienced, successful keepers and breeders. Especially when it comes to the safety of our animals.

Best I can tell, you have less than a year of experience with one snake (forgive me if I'm mistaken). Hardly a sample size large enough to determine whether it's successful or not.

I have been in this hobby for many years. During that time I've read books, interacted with other keepers/breeders, tinkered with trial and error, read forums, blogs, care sheets, etc...etc...etc...

Bottom line, I've made educated decisions with my animals with their health being top priority. I've learned from other people's successes and failures, as well as my own.
As for the placement of the thermostat probe, outside the enclosure is widely accepted as the safest place. It simply takes the "what if?" out of the equation. The only way my animals will be burned is if my equipment fails.

[Dianne]

Just to add another point for probe placement, all of my thermostats specifically state not to put the probe where liquid can get between the steel tip and the cable. For wet applications, you purchase a probe specifically for that type of application which is appropriately sealed or purchase a specialized casing for the probe based on manufacturer specs. I’m prone to reading all of the literature that comes with my equipment, so maybe others have not.

[SquirmyPug]

The only way my animals will be burned is if my equipment fails.

It's the same for me. This is what it comes down to, the placement of the probe keeps my animals safe.

The "what ifs" shouldn't even exist because the issues don't even make sense. 90-ish farenheit is the same no matter if it's a little damp or if it has a snake on top of it.

If you really think about how heat moves, the contact area of a snake on top of a probe (not like it swallowed the probe), what happens to a small amount of water on substrate.... it all adds up to being almost exactly the same as under the terrarium and above the UTH. Except that temperature readings at the probe are closer to actual temps.. and there's another wire inside.

It's not wrong. It's not dangerous. It's just different than what you do.

[SquirmyPug]

Just to add another point for probe placement, all of my thermostats specifically state not to put the probe where liquid can get between the steel tip and the cable. For wet applications, you purchase a probe specifically for that type of application which is appropriately sealed or purchase a specialized casing for the probe based on manufacturer specs. I’m prone to reading all of the literature that comes with my equipment, so maybe others have not.

All of my thermostats/ thermometers have plastic probes. Herpstat manual recommends inside the terrarium but suggests sandwiching as another option.