Weird Behavior

[maausen]

Hey guys,

My 4 year old ball has been acting odd lately. He is constantly trying to escape the viv and I cannot figure out why. I have him in an Animal Plastics cage and he keeps shoving his head in the crack between the glass and PVC. He has been pushing super hard on the glass and I can see it sometimes moving his mouth from pushing so hard. He has been really healthy up till now and everything has been great.

I have him in an Animal Plastics t3 with RHP for heat. He has two black hides from LLLreptile. Warm side is always 86-88F and the ambient is 79-80F always. Humidity is 60% usually.

He has been eating normally and fed every 10 days on small rats. Consistent weight. Has not been fasting. All feces and pee is cleaned and he gets a full cage disinfectant and cage breakdown every 30 days.

One thing I've noticed recently is the cage has an odd smell.. It almost is chemically smell mixed with wood chips.. I have had him in the SAME cage with SAME decor for two years and it has never been a problem..

For the life of me I just cannot figure this out. I am worried he will hurt himself.

[Bogertophis]

Have you checked around the RHP for any discoloration of the plastic? Heat doesn't always play well with plastic- plastics break down & the fumes are typically
toxic. AP's are made of PVC, if I'm not mistaken? I've seen people say they smell, so imagine how much stronger that would be to a snake kept inside "24/7"
with very little ventilation. And I think you can answer this for yourself....just do a search for "PVC toxic fumes" & do a little reading. This is why I house my
snakes in glass tanks, glass is inert & won't melt, & it sure doesn't off-gas toxic vapors. It sounds to me like your snake is telling you he needs fresh air.

One of many articles: http://www.chej.org/pvcfactsheets/Th...n_Plastic.html

[maausen]

I would like to see some sources that is not Quora on this topic... I know many keepers on this site use AP all the time with no problems whatsoever...

[Bogertophis]

I would like to see some sources that is not Quora on this topic... I know many keepers on this site use AP all the time with no problems whatsoever...

I just grabbed a couple articles very quick...search for yourself...I know ppl use plastic cages, but you are seeing your snake in distress & I'm just giving you
a likely (though "inconvenient") reason, especially since even YOU can smell it. I feel the same way about plastic smell as your snake does, I use glass tanks.
And just because plastic is "everywhere" doesn't make it safe. It's used for water pipes...but those aren't HEATED as your cages are. When you add energy
(heat), it off-gases...and you're breathing it too, but you are much bigger and you aren't breathing the same concentration as your snake is. And you have
a choice & the ability to come & go, unlike your snake.

[maausen]

Well, I do appreciate your feedback on the topic. I honestly think the smell could be more of a urate not found..

[Skyrivers]

glass is inert

The debate of glass being a liquid or solid at room temperature has been a debate for decades. Just throwing useless information out there. LOL

Glass, however, is actually neither a liquid—supercooled or otherwise—nor a solid. It is an amorphous solid—a state somewhere between those two states of matter. And yet glass's liquidlike properties are not enough to explain the thicker-bottomed windows, because glass atoms move too slowly for changes to be visible.

[maausen]

How would I go about making sure it is not a RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now its starting to come back again and I am worried.

[VereMyth]

How would I go about making sure it is not an RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now it's starting to come back again and I am worried.

Like stated above check for discoloration or deformities in the plastic make sure your RHP is not getting too hot so temp gun it and the plastic behind it.

If all of this does not pinpoint you may have to add elements to the enclosure one by one over a period of time(An old enclosure setup or even a quarantine setup to store your noodle in while this is happening would be advised) First remove your noodle and then the substrate clean the enclosure. But after you done cleaning DO NOT put more substrate in.

then wait for a few for the smell(How long this goes in depends on the average time it took the smell to come back after deep cleaning.

remove hides and repeat the rest of the above

continue removing elements until it is just the tank and it heating elements and then leave those on.

Continue to do this and then pinpoint the origin of the smell.

[CALM Pythons]

How would I go about making sure it is not a RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now its starting to come back again and I am worried.

I know what the smell is.. I posted last year on something similar.. you mentioned LLLReptile. Last year Reptile Basics was out of hides so I bought a Hide from LLL who is a RBI distributor. After one day one of my AP enclosures stunk to high hell... it was the Hide. I called LLL and argued they were NOT RBI HIDES. They disagreed. I called RBI and talked to Bob. He explained his process of molding for his Hides and the ones I got were Not his hides even though LLL lists them as his. I sent them back, got a refund and Bob sent me his. Boom NO SMELL. There are replica’s all over the internet calling then RBI hides. Ebay, amazon and over seas’s distributors and manufacturers are using a different plastic/pvc that stinks once it hits 85 degrees. RBI called LLL and I dont know what came of it but he sent me a free shirt and didnt charge me shipping because of the problem. Even though some people have great experiences with LLL I will never do business with them again. Of course the customer service department new nothing about what happened and I don’t blame the girl that answered the phone however that was a straight up lie and misrepresentation of products. Get a RBI hide and id bet the smell goes away. Also I use all Pro Products RHP’s, there is nothing to cause a smell in them. Ive taken them apart to see how they are made. Simple manufacture. I do smell the “new smell” everytime i get another one, but not a chemical smell.
As far as Skating the glass.... you didn’t say what time of day or night this is happening, my ball pythons come out in the evening around 8 PM until 5AM climbing and searching. This is normal behavior and you will never see mine out during the day.
If what you’re explaining is day time searching that’s another story. I’d still start with those hides since that was my personal experience one year ago.


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[maausen]

Thank you very much for sharing that. I definitely will look into the hides. I can't believe people can sell fake hides with a brand name and get away with it