Determining prey size

[mich]

Hi,

Since I got my girl a month ago, I have fed her a total o f 5 to 6 times all of which consisted of fuzzies. I'm about to order a batch of mice for her and I was wondering if I should upgrade her prey size to hoppers or even small mice. I took a picture of her next to a quarter coin while she was consuming a fuzzie yesterday. Thanks.

[Slicercrush]

Usual rule of thumb is prey as big as the thickest section of the snake, or roughly 10% of their body weight. My guy is around 300g, so he eats 30g prey, etc. Of course theres variability, but its a general rule of thumb.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Craiga 01453]

Hello,

Fuzzies are too small for a BP, even fresh out of the egg they eat hoppers. After only 3-5 meals of hoppers they are moved up to adult mice. You may want to consider switching to rats sooner than later too. Eventually it's just easier to feed 1 rat as opposed to multiple mice

This feeding chart should help:



Sent from my SM-J327T1 using Tapatalk

[mich]

Thanks. I have no way of weighting her now so I was hoping someone can help eyeball it. What are the reasons for moving to rats early? I am going to order from Layne Labs and I saw that a pinkie rat is approximately 9 to 13 gram (similar to a small mice) and fuzzy rat is 14-19 grams (similar to a medium mice) so if go with rats, I think I should get pinkies. Are there any pros and cos for switching to rats early? If I stay with mice, do you think small mice will work for her just based on eyeballing? I know they can take bigger food items but it is kind of painful for me to watch them swallowing a huge thing through their tiny necks....

[Craiga 01453]

Thanks. I have no way of weighting her now so I was hoping someone can help eyeball it. What are the reasons for moving to rats early? I am going to order from Layne Labs and I saw that a pinkie rat is approximately 9 to 13 gram (similar to a small mice) and fuzzy rat is 14-19 grams (similar to a medium mice) so if go with rats, I think I should get pinkies. Are there any pros and cos for switching to rats early? If I stay with mice, do you think small mice will work for her just based on eyeballing? I know they can take bigger food items but it is kind of painful for me to watch them swallowing a huge thing through their tiny necks....

The benefit to switching to rats is that eventually the snake will need multiple mice in order to be an appropriately sized meal, whereas they will never get big enough that they'll need multiple rats. It's easier and cheaper to feed one prey item than multiples. Switching earlier will often make it an easier transition, as BPs can be tougher to switch as they get older.

If you refer to the chart I put in the above reply, you'll see that rat pinks aren't on it, because they're too small.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but feeding your snake prey too small of a meal because you find it "painful to watch them swallowing a huge thing through their tiny necks" is not doing your snake any favors and maybe keeping snakes isn't for you.
This is stuff that should have been researched PRIOR to bringing the animal home.

[mich]

Ok. No need to be rude/mean here. I didn't *acquire* the animals and brought them home intentionally as a hobby. My friend asked me babysit but it turned out that he didn't want them anymore. I'm doing research along the way to provide the best I can to them (ordering them each Herpstat and T10 etc.). You deal with choosing the appropriate prey size as they grow to a certain size. My friend left me a bag of fuzzies and we just finished the last one. I did not *intentionally* feed them anything smaller than they should be eating because i found it painful to watch. That comment was meant to say that I'm not sure what size to upgrade to as fuzzie already seems kind of big in her throat. As you were busy writing, I was already researching for a scale to buy which will be shipped here in 2 days. No further help is needed.

[Craiga 01453]

Ok. No need to be rude/mean here. I didn't *acquire* the animals and brought them home intentionally as a hobby. My friend asked me babysit but it turned out that he didn't want them anymore. I'm doing research along the way to provide the best I can to them (ordering them each Herpstat and T10 etc.). You deal with choosing the appropriate prey size as they grow to a certain size. My friend left me a bag of fuzzies and we just finished the last one. I did not *intentionally* feed them anything smaller than they should be eating because i found it painful to watch. That comment was meant to say that I'm not sure what size to upgrade to as fuzzie already seems kind of big in her throat. As you were busy writing, I was already researching for a scale to buy which will be shipped here in 2 days. No further help is needed.

As I said, I wasn't trying to be rude. I shared a chart that is shared almost weekly on this forum because it is proven to be the best chart going. Years of research with thousands of animals went into creating it.
Then you ask about pinky rats that aren't even on the chart because they're too small for BPs.

And your comment about "painful to watch" indicates that you're putting your needs above the snake's health.

And your comment saying "no further help is needed" will get you nowhere. Luckily, people on this forum care about the animals and will be willing to help you moving forward, but an attitude like that won't help you or your snake.

I wish your snake the best...

[mich]

When I said painful to watch, it wasn't about my need. I should have said it differently if I knew you would be so quick to jump on those words. I really meant that I didn't want to kill her with something that would be too big because I do need her to be able to swallow and digest it. It was just a motherly way of expressing my care.

Nothing I have done for these snakes was about my needs. Personally I would not choose a hobby that involves keeping any animals in a cage as it is my personal belief that they should be left in wild and not be bred as pets. But that is my *opinion* only. It is my exboyfriend's thing and unfortunately he was irresponsible (he has also lost snakes in the past - which to me is entirely unacceptable). Having said that, I love all animals and have bonded with these girls. I have committed myself to them for the rest of their lives and will never give them away for adoption. I get the top of the line stuff for them. I run my central AC or heating for them every single day to keep their ambient temperature. I have a wireless camera I use to monitor them and their temperature/humidity from my office. The fact that I'm actually reassessing the prey size means I do care about them and want the best for them.

Your chart was referring to grams. Since I'm getting my scale, I will figure out the right prey size by then in 2 days. Hence, I said no further help is needed. Not attitude. Thank you for the chart.

[Craiga 01453]

When I said painful to watch, it wasn't about my need. I should have said it differently if I knew you would be so quick to jump on those words. I really meant that I didn't want to kill her with something that would be too big because I do need her to be able to swallow and digest it. It was just a motherly way of expressing my care.

Nothing I have done for these snakes was about my needs. Personally I would not choose a hobby that involves keeping any animals in a cage as it is my personal belief that they should be left in wild and not be bred as pets. But that is my *opinion* only. It is my exboyfriend's thing and unfortunately he was irresponsible (he has also lost snakes in the past - which to me is entirely unacceptable). Having said that, I love all animals and have bonded with these girls. I have committed myself to them for the rest of their lives and will never give them away for adoption. I get the top of the line stuff for them. I run my central AC or heating for them every single day to keep their ambient temperature. I have a wireless camera I use to monitor them and their temperature/humidity from my office. The fact that I'm actually reassessing the prey size means I do care about them and want the best for them.

Your chart was referring to grams. Since I'm getting my scale, I will figure out the right prey size by then in 2 days. Hence, I said no further help is needed. Not attitude. Thank you for the chart.

Alright, so we got off on the wrong foot, I apologize.
I took your words too literally, I guess.

Anyway, I shared the chart and tried to explain. Rat pinks are also way too small. I know it can be deceiving, but these animals are built to eat large prey because they are ambush predators who will go months without food in the wild (as well as in captivity) so they need to eat decent size meals. They also have a slow metabolism because they are built for infrequent meals. Judging by the picture you shared that snake can EASILY take small adult mice or rat fuzzies and will be able to move up within months.
Also, rat pinks have very little nutritional value because they have yet to develop fully.

All that being said, I order from Perfect Prey, so I don't know what quantity packages Layne Labs offers. If it were me, I'd get a small bag of small mice, a small bag of rat fuzzies and a small bag of rat pups. This will allow you to transition from mice to rats as well as move up in size as the snake grows.

Good luck and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[mich]

No worries. Thank you for your suggestion. I think the combination makes a lot of sense and I will confirm with a scale. It is very deceiving at least for me to see how small they are (the other one is even smaller) yet to learn how much they can/should eat. I would do what is right for them to make them happy. If they can find a way to tell me that they would prefer to live in Africa, you'd better believe that I'll take them there immediately.

I picked Layne Lab because according to their website, they euthanize their feeder animals and their animals have been proven to have no salmonella. I have no proof. However, they're in California so the shipping would be reasonable. Also, I've read good reviews of them on this website. I'll take a look at Perfect Prey as well. Thanks.