Sometimes I wonder about my spider..

[pretends2bnormal]

I haven't posted here before, so I'll do a bit of intro. Slight disclaimer, not really any questions here I need answered, just wanted to vent a little frustration to a (probably) sympathetic audience and introduce my snakes a little.

So, I'm fairly new to snakes, my first snake was a Abbott's Okeetee corn snake (lovingly named Mr. Danger Noodle, or Noodle). All went great for a while with him and decided I was up to getting a ball python (which had been a toss up to get one as my first instead, wound up trying the easier corn snake for several months first). I'd seen a lot of posts about problem feeder or picky babies and in an attempt to avoid it, I went with an adult with the main criteria being eating fine and friendly. I only ended up with one of my goals... Dx

Away to the local expo I went, and got to talking to one of the breeders. He said he had just the snake for someone looking for a friendly pet and pulled out my boy Obi. He had been a breeder for him before, he even showed me one of his babies on the table, a bee combo of some sort, and is probably 2-3+ years old now, though I really don't know. He was in blue at the show and despite that didn't do any hiding or major startling being held while blind. Pretty much immediately started moving around my arm and exploring. When I asked about eating, the guy said he eats mostly live, but only because he breeds rats and it's easier that way. He assured me that he had taken frozen/thaw rats before and would have no problem taking them. So, I took him (after a bit more browsing and trying to decide).

I'll admit to making a few newbie mistakes in this, most especially being that I have no contact info/name for the breeder. (I had mistakenly assumed his name/email or even a company name was on the sales receipt, and by the time I realized it wasn't I could not remember the name from the sign.)

Obi is an adult spider male. Weighed about 1,350g when I brought him home and in good body shape from the guidelines I saw here. I had set up a diy rack with tubs/heat tape and had all the husbandry in the right ranges using all the equipment suggested to newbies on here (digital thermometers, herpstat, etc.) I left him be for a week (and for him to finish shedding, which ended up in 2 big pieces when he ripped it I'm half on an edge of a hide), and tried to feed him. My next mistake was probably here in starting with F/T, but he did show interest in it and seemed to recognize it as food, but didn't take it. Tried to re-warm it several times (dip in hot water then pat dry), but never quite got a strike. Left it near the hide overnight to no avail.
This was around end of October.

I tried the F/T the following week and failed. In part because I didn't have any idea where to get live near me and partly thinking he was just adjusting and would take it next. His first successful feed was the next week when I brought home live, but in a wonderful stroke of irony the store only had live mice in stock that day. I went ahead and got 2, figuring worst case I trade them back for the rat; was a bit worried since the breeder didn't feed due to his shed and it was now over a month since he ate (bit of a newbie concern, but I also really wanted to get him eating for me). Shocker, he ate them! Though it took him nearly 2 hours to find them 1 at a time in a 28qt tub and strike... He kept getting close and just failing to see it there or delaying his strike until the mouse had fled... following the mice his next successful feeds were live small rats (~60-70g)

This pattern has pretty much continued with typical adult male BP flair where he proceeded to refuse rats, mice, and frozen for 2 months... had a pet rat there for a while. And the last few times I tried rats, he has refused to even strike and acts scared, when I know nothing has ever happened except one booping him nose to nose instead of fleeing and startled him [this was the first rat he ate out of 3...] so now I'm back to trying mice, which at least don't seem to "scare" him into giving up after 10 minutes. (He has never once taken less than half an hour to get a successful strike/wrap, so I leave the feeder in and watch until at least that long rather than the 10 minutes I've seen suggested. If I pulled it that soon he would still be narrowing down where it was to even try a strike. Sometimes I leave it longer if he has struck and missed and is still looking for it for another go)

He hardly ever shakes while moving unless he's close to striking and holding off the ground, so I had thought he had maybe a moderate wobble. I suspect his just manifests with very strong directional disorientation instead.. He frequently climbs walls/glass straight up and goes along the ceiling upside down until he's over half off the ground, or keeps his head entirely upside down when climbing on your arm and exploring.





In the middle of his fasting at the start of January, I got my AP T8 and moved him in, hoping the RHP kept more consistent ambient temps (our heat is always cooler at night and I wanted to eliminate that as an issue in his feeding) and I liked the aesthetic. It honestly seems too big for him to try and hunt in and I've been splitting the size in half by inserting the door to feed him on only 1 side. Helps a little (shaving 20 mins off of a 2 hour hunting endeavor), but not much. I tried to add a video and tapatalk complained on the file size, so it's just pics for now.

At this point, I'm a bit resigned to having a semi-struggling feeder that will only take live and possibly only mice... my current plan is to get several consecutive weeks of eating the mice (& fully end his winter fast) before trying to force the issue back to rats. His feeding response is so low compared to others posted here in terms of speed of getting off a strike for a live rat/mouse that I'm doubtful that I will get him to take frozen any time soon, or possibly ever. From his lack of real interest in frozen, I kind of doubt he has ever eaten frozen on his own. I think I'd be happy if I could even get him to just take 2 frozen jumbo mice... comically, he was super interested last week when I was feeding large pinkies to my corn, so I held one out for him figuring he'd ignore it, and actually got a halfhearted strike! But didn't go again and wouldn't look twice at a frozen adult mouse I had thawed for Vega.

(One notable occasion I tried frozen after acquiring a hair dryer, I zombied it in front of the hide and he proceedeed to come to the entrance, look right at it and sniff, then turned and came further out around it and kept looking. Like "yes, a thing in front of my face, but I smell a rat somewhere in here and it's definitely not that thing on the tongs" -> slithers out of hide to start searching)

Since I know y'all like pictures, I've included several of Obi and his antics as well as my other 2 snakes. (My 3rd is ironicly a baby banana BP [Lord Vega] who has only refused 1 meal in 2 months when I didn't realize he was in blue and has taken F/T mice with 0 problem from day 1)

Note - Noodle the corn snake is a very enthusiastic feeder and has never missed a meal or a strike... He attempts to emulate a scared BP by turning into a ball for 10 minutes before he actually eats, though.



Also, sorry for the super loong post!! Hoping the pics make up for it!!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Ax01]

welcome to BP.net. nice collection of snakes u got and i really like Obi's water bowl. i hope he will eat consistently for u but that's the fun and frustrations of BP's.

[Slicercrush]

Welcome to the forum! I'm not gonna lie, I made the same mistake as you when I got my first BP about 2-3 weeks ago with not getting the breeder's info, oops! Its a mistake i hope to not make again, though luckily my guy has been feeding well on F/T. I wish you best of luck with your snakes, and would love to receive updates on how this works out! Great collection.

[c0r3yr0s3]

I enjoyed reading your post. That's a very nice collection.

If you want to post a video, it's easier to upload it to YouTube and share the link

[pretends2bnormal]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I've been on here a ton for the info since I first got Noodle, and it's been unbelievably helpful.

@Ax01 I got the bowl from PetSmart I think. Went in looking for a bowl with edges high enough he would quit shoving bedding into it daily and easier to clean. These were in the rodent area at my local stores; they have small, medium, and large ones. That's the large bowl, about the size of your average ceramic dog food bowl, I'd say, except with less paw prints and bones.

@Slicercrush I've sworn to myself to make sure I have the breeder's info before I leave from now on. Both the sellers of my other snakes gave business cards and had their business name written on the sales receipt. The less local one (Vega's breeder, from MO I think (info is at home), & I'm in TX) even gave me their cell phone number if I hit any issues.

@c0r3yr0s3 I'll try to remember to load a few clips into a video to post when I'm home from work later.

I am thinking about moving Obi back into a tub/rack type of setup. I'm fairly sure that's what he was in with the breeder before. The T8 is great (and I'll either save it for Vega when he's big enough, or maybe get me a bigger snake >.>), but Obi seems to struggle with staying ground level and oriented when he hunts and I think the lower height of a tub may help. It's pretty clear in the videos I took (will post clips later), but he goes up and down the walls and ceiling a lot, at times directly above a mouse or rat!

I don't think I caught it on camera, but one time he moved too far to the side along a wall and flopped back to the ground with his head on top of the poor mouse. It jumped so bad I would swear it bounced off of the ceiling and landed 2 feet away.

I was using a DIY rack to start but I got a bit concerned about rubbing across the heat tape causing damage with how tight the 41qt bin ended up being and ordered him the T8. I didn't think he'd end up having such a hard time finding his food. Not that he was great at it in the tub, but it wasn't quite this bad.

Any thoughts on if the height reduction might help?
And what size tub do you think that a breeder would have had him in?
He's approx 1,300g and exactly 4 ft long, according to the serpwidget webapp. He seems slender compared to a lot of other BPs I see pics of on here, but not particularly underweight.



This was how I found him one of the nights before he finally ate again, being a complete goofball.


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[pretends2bnormal]

Finally got around to putting together a video of clips from this last attempt at feeding. I didn't record the whole time, so my videos jumped around a bit. He did eat the first one, but gave up after over an hour on the second one. (dang it, temporary pet mouse...)

For anyone wondering why one of them is wet, the only way I could convince the mouse to move from freezing in place (for 5+ minutes) to let Obi know where it was/find it again without reaching in and startling both of them was to spray it with water from a squirt bottle through a crack. Maybe not the best idea I've had, but he didn't have any more difficulties smelling the mouse after it was wet than he had before.

https://youtu.be/Y-OZ4yzZRrU

After looking at the video, does it seem to any of you that the lower ceiling in a tub may be beneficial for him?

Thanks!!

[BluuWolf]

My spider girl does that same lifted head position and wrapping around my arm like that your guys does XD



Her wobble isn’t as bad as your guys seems to be with the falling upside down and not eating well but she does miss every now and again and can act a bit quirky lol. Even so I do think a rack system might do him some good. I recently moved my guys into racks and I have seen a lot of improvement in my spider girls temperament (She used to be very shy) and she hasn’t missed a meal!

As I said hers isn’t as severe as your boys but she did seem to get lost and a bit disoriented at times in her old encloser and I think the tub just makes her feel a lot safer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk