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  1. #41
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Here's another video of Cleo vs. a Hornworm, her favorite.

    Look at her cheeks "pulsing" when she sees it and gets excited.


  2. #42
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Don't remember if I've written about this before, but Cleo has been slowing down regarding eating. She really doesn't want Dubai anymore, and was eating mealworms, but only a little out of her dish. Her weight is good and she gets the occasional hornworm or wax worm, but her hunting skills have diminished. I am not sure what's going on, but my best guess is/was eyesight issues. She still likes coming out and saying hello when I open the tank (her MO most of the time) and seems totally chill when I hold her etc. It's only with eating.

    About a year ago, when didn't eat for a bit, I noticed what looked like potential mouth rot on the sides of her mouth. When I went to clean it (with a q-tip), the whole item, which looked like a scab, came out of her mouth at once. It went roof of mouth (a little towards the front) and across to both sides and impacted her being able to close her mouth a little on the sides. Since then, I've noticed it 4 more times, all seemingly after or soon after a shed. Not sure if it's related or not. However, she was eating fine once I popped that scab like thing out and consistently.

    I guess it could be a calcified something, but really, it just seems like a scab and comes right out and she goes on for months with no issues after.

    Anyway, come to the past month and she has really slowed down eating and for longer than usual. Last week I tried hand feeding her mealworms, but her aim isn't great, although she showed interest, and ate a few. If I put a mealworm down, she tries to smell/taste it and then eat it, but it often gets away before she can.

    Today, I bought some rubber tipped feeding tongs/tweezers. BAM - she quickly gobbled down a few mealworms off the tongs. Again, she missed a bit, but seemed enthusiastic and happily ate once she got a piece of the mealworm in her mouth.

    I mentioned the mouth thing for the sake of not leaving anything out, but I don't think that's the root cause.

    Could she just be slowing down with age (she's 8 and we lost her adopted sister Kayla early last year suddenly - they were within a month of each other in age)? Could it be an eyesight issue (she is albino with red eyes and I've heard they can have more eyesight issues than non-albinos - but don't know if that is true)? Does it matter?

    She's eating now and I think she will continue to eat off the tongs. She gets calcium and vitamins (less often) on her food as needed and will get more than just mealworms as a treat as mentioned above. I think her diet is good and most importantly, all her food items are gut loaded with quality and diverse food.

    Just want to know if anyone thinks I should be worried, or just assume she needs a little extra love now, and feed her off the tongs and let it be.

  3. #43
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    My experience & knowledge of these critters is pretty limited, but it concerns me that the "mouth thing" recurs. 5 times is a lot, IMO, especially combined with eating difficulties. Maybe her mouth hurts? I don't know what age these guys are getting "old" & slowing down would be "normal". I've heard the same thing about albino vision & like you, not sure whether it's all that true.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  5. #44
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    My experience & knowledge of these critters is pretty limited, but it concerns me that the "mouth thing" recurs. 5 times is a lot, IMO, especially combined with eating difficulties. Maybe her mouth hurts? I don't know what age these guys are getting "old" & slowing down would be "normal". I've heard the same thing about albino vision & like you, not sure whether it's all that true.
    I agree the mouth thing would be concerning, except she eats with it most of the time, so there may not be a correlation there. Additionally, within 30 seconds of removing it, she will accept food. So I can't imagine it hurts her that much. If anything, it's a relief as soon as it's out.

    Not trying to argue Boger, just thinking out loud here.

    My experience with mouth rot is limited to a very old Beardie who ate with it, but I treated and eradicated it anyway with a few weeks of injections and daily medication rubs in the mouth/gums. Lost him soon after to pancreatitis. RIP George.

    Anyway, not sure what else could be causing the mouth thing, except some shed remnants. As mentioned, it seems to occur right after sheds, when it does.

    Further, she eats enthusiastically when she can catch the food or I feed her. If her mouth hurt, wouldn't she avoid eating?

    As with you, my experience with Leopard Geckos is limited. I know about them through keeping Cleo, Carra, and Kayla (RIP). I did a lot of research before I got them and since, but not sure about the having issues hunting. comes from.

    After writing this, I googled mouth issues with Leopard Geckos.

    This picture looks like what I've seen in Cleo's mouth, but about 10X worse. As soon as I notice it all I get it out, but I've never seen it anywhere near this bad with her. AGAIN - to be clear, this is not Cleo, but another LG with greatly amplified symptoms.



    Reddit says it's mouth rot caused by weekend immune system. Any thoughts on that? Can age weaken an immune system enough to cause it? Do you think this is mouth rot? Can you scrape mouth rot away? Or, yes, most of it, but it comes back - hence it coming back. Could it be something else - like an irritation? He cage is spotless and cleaned regularly and I use paper as substrate so no real room for bacteria to grow. Unless it's just her immune system not being able to fight basic stuff.

    Obvisouly, I don't want her to be in pain and if she needs treatment, will definitely do it. I guess I didn't think much about it because it comes out easy and goes away for a while. Hmmmmm - any thoughts?

    You all know I want what's best for her. I just didn't think this was mouth rot or something serious. If I am being naive here, please let me know.

    EDIT: I checked my records. It started last year and has happened 3X - about every 5 months.
    Last edited by dakski; 02-14-2021 at 10:37 PM.

  6. #45
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    From your description, yes, I think it's "mouth rot"- an infection that could also end up being systemic* & causing the rest of the symptoms that you described, I'm pretty sure, so yeah, I think the vet would be a good idea. Scraping it away won't cure it, as far as I know. Older humans have weaker immune systems, so I assume the same thing holds true for our scaly pals. A weakened immune system is more prone to bacterial & viral infections. *And just so you follow my line of reasoning here: these days doctors remind us (humans) about the link between oral health & heart disease & other systemic issues. As far as whether or not mouth discomfort would stop her from eating, I know that when I've had a toothache, I still got hungry enough to eat no matter what- some things take precedence.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  8. #46
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    I am on it. I'll reach out to the vet and see what we can do.

    Feel really dumb here. With the limited experience I had with mouth rot, this seemed nothing like it.

    Darn!

    Thank you Boger, I'll report back ASAP.

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  10. #47
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I'm curious as to what all the vet will do for this- these little LEs aren't the easiest creatures to treat, but I hope they can help. Like anything else, maybe get a culture & antibiotic?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  11. #48
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    I'm curious as to what all the vet will do for this- these little LEs aren't the easiest creatures to treat, but I hope they can help. Like anything else, maybe get a culture & antibiotic?
    Yeah, me too. Also vet is 1 1/2 hours away in good weather and we are expecting storms pretty much all week. Also, COVID. Iíll call and see whatís up.

    Iíll keep everyone posted.

  12. #49
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    Yeah, me too. Also vet is 1 1/2 hours away in good weather and we are expecting storms pretty much all week. Also, COVID. Iíll call and see whatís up.

    Iíll keep everyone posted.
    It has waited this long, so it's not what I'd call an emergency- ie. wait until safe weather to travel. But I'd call & see if there's anything you can try in the meantime?

    It feels like the North Pole right now where I am- & it's never supposed to be this cold here! Snowing most of this week too...not the time to travel. Stay safe.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  13. #50
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Finally - 5 years late: An introduction to Cleo, Carra, and Kayla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    It has waited this long, so it's not what I'd call an emergency- ie. wait until safe weather to travel. But I'd call & see if there's anything you can try in the meantime?

    It feels like the North Pole right now where I am- & it's never supposed to be this cold here! Snowing most of this week too...not the time to travel. Stay safe.
    Yeah, the plan is call and see if there's something I should do in the meantime, then schedule a visit for safer weather.

    Thank you again Boger!

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