Your thoughts on Dwarf and SD retics?

[GpBp]

Woah! Lots of replies! I'll do my best;
I watched those videos, very great! Though, idk what he means by some of the stuff he said. I know what mainland means, but the like "kalatoa" or something like that (lol) just lost me! Very helpful though. That G-Stripe was SMOKING!!!

I don't think I'd get a mainland, although they are beautiful and amazing, just a bit too big for me! So, from my understanding, some SDs will get larger than others. I want small as possible, so it just depends on the parents? Though apparently, you want something mixed with a mainland so the temperament isn't too crazy? I'm okay with hook training and stuff, but I want the snake to be relatively calm when I have them out.

Also, will an SD ever get big enough to eat a rabbit..? I'd really prefer not too! It's expensive and sad (I'd feed F/T) Can I not feed them as much as a yearling and maybe they won't grow as large?

DANG! Some of those mainlands are H U G E! Again, sticking with an SD or an SD cross.

xShevi, that little thing is precious! Love those purples! And so tiny! What do you mean by "tap training"? And, is Juno a pure SD or a cross (Sorry if you already mentioned it)? And you expect her to stay small because of the size of the parents, correct?

Sorry if I forgot something, thanks for all your help everyone!

[GpBp]

I love this morph! Those purples on the head are incredible! I love the muted tent.

http://www.bobclark.com/available/reticulated_pythons/

(9th down, on the right)

[cchardwick]

There's a lot that goes into the potential size of dwarf and super dwarf retics. As far as I know there are no 'morphs' that are pure super dwarf or dwarf, so if you get an albino or tiger or anything else besides a normal they had to cross it with mainland to get the final result. And then it comes down to percentages. My super dwarf purple albino is 37.5% super dwarf, 50% dwarf (Jampea) and only 12.5% mainland. It gets a bit confusing as it goes on, now I'm crossing this male with a female 50% dwarf / 50% mainland so the super dwarf percentage gets cut in half for the offspring. If you buy a super dwarf or dwarf that is other than normal in color and pattern you should find out what percentages make up the genetics, that's the only way to determine size potential.

With all these percentages at play it's hard to know how big the babies will get. The higher the percentage of super dwarf the smaller the snake. The locality also comes into play, there are some lines that are much bigger than others. A lot of it also depends on feeding amount and frequency.

I actually bought a retic because I wanted a 'gentle giant', a snake that was really big and impressive. I wasn't out to get the smallest retic that I could get, I suppose it comes down to personal preference. But for me a substantial size is important, I was looking for something big and impressive but not so big that it would outgrow my house LOL.

Also, for younger snakes that are super aggressive I started picking up and handling them every time they show any sign of aggression, especially when they are hatchling size. I have a black and white King snake that will coil up and snap at me like a rattlesnake and as soon as I see that I'll pull the tub and slowly spin it around 180 degrees to disorient him a bit and then pick him up and handle him for a few minutes. You need to build as much trust as possible, especially with a snake that can get as big as a retic. The last thing you want is a monster snake that you don't trust, that could potentially be extremely dangerous.

[67temp]

Here is a great thread about super dwarf care. It also explains things about size and local like the "kalatoa"

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Information

[Zincubus]

My Super Dwarf Purple Albino had a 5' dad and a 6' mum and he's still under 4' - just under 3 years old ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[xShevi]

Woah! Lots of replies! I'll do my best;
I watched those videos, very great! Though, idk what he means by some of the stuff he said. I know what mainland means, but the like "kalatoa" or something like that (lol) just lost me! Very helpful though. That G-Stripe was SMOKING!!!

I don't think I'd get a mainland, although they are beautiful and amazing, just a bit too big for me! So, from my understanding, some SDs will get larger than others. I want small as possible, so it just depends on the parents? Though apparently, you want something mixed with a mainland so the temperament isn't too crazy? I'm okay with hook training and stuff, but I want the snake to be relatively calm when I have them out.

Also, will an SD ever get big enough to eat a rabbit..? I'd really prefer not too! It's expensive and sad (I'd feed F/T) Can I not feed them as much as a yearling and maybe they won't grow as large?

DANG! Some of those mainlands are H U G E! Again, sticking with an SD or an SD cross.

xShevi, that little thing is precious! Love those purples! And so tiny! What do you mean by "tap training"? And, is Juno a pure SD or a cross (Sorry if you already mentioned it)? And you expect her to stay small because of the size of the parents, correct?

Sorry if I forgot something, thanks for all your help everyone!

What cchardwick said is about right.

I'll try and explain it easier, I hope I do this right as the breeder once told me about the process.

When you want a morph super dwarf, you take a mainland that carries the morph, let's say it's an albino, and the super dwarf, this creates a line of super dwarfs that are F1. (Generation 1 of two parents)

The F1 offspring that are visibly albino are (I think 25%) and you breed these back to a different but, this only needs to happen once, pure lineage of super dwarf, this starts to increase the percentage of super dwarf in the offspring that will be F2 50% super dwarf.

Now, this is when it gets weird. Because you breed that F2 offspring back to the original super dwarf you had, of course the albino offspring, to increase the super dwarf percentage more and more.

This creates your F3 offspring that is 75%. You can produce more litters than that but it will never get higher in percentage UNLESS you're breeding super dwarfs together and not for the morph.
There's different ways to do this, and there's a guy called Tom's Retics on Instagram that claims to have 81.5% super dwarfs in morphs..

It's extremely difficult to understand how this works, but this about simplifies the process. Genetics in reptiles work differently than any other species. It takes years on years to get these kind of small retics, and even more so to get with a certain morph. Some day, platinum will be a possibility. Or even goldenchild albino's (Omg)

Now for Juno, she's an F1 litter from two Madu morphed super dwarfs. They were both 75%, and so is Juno. Her parents were small, but not as tiny as Juno will be I think. There's a certain pattern to feeding her, that makes a retic small. Because, what the hell is a super dwarf anyway?

A super dwarf is a retic from a region or island like Madu, or Kalatoa, where their feeding pattern is incredibly different. They only get one season of feeding the whole year round and feed on birds. They only come there for a season and then the birds leave again. So this is why the retics remain small. There is no "real super dwarf" and people say that when you feed a super dwarf like a normal retic, it will grow just as big.

I am not one to try this out, as I said beforehand I just hate feeding a rabbit that will bleed all over the place. Then again, Juno is picky and will only eat rats. People said retics are garbage cans and eat anything, so birds and mice as well. I tried this out with a mouse but she wouldn't have it, only eats rats.


Tap training is when you get a hook, and train her into the pattern that every time you touch her head(top, under, nose, tip of nose, sides) with the hook, you pick her up.
When you do this the first few weeks or months she will flip the heck out, mine actually started crawling up walls and it looked kinda sad to do it now but you can not break this habit. Retics are known to be the most intelligent of snakes and they will read you and learn from you as well as you learn from them. Therefore it's important to stick through the process and get her out whatever the cost, yes even if it means to get a bite. She will learn in time that you won't harm her as this process ensues into a light touch of the hook, then your hand enters the viv, and then you get her out. Always supported by that hook because you don't know what she'll do during the training.

This worked excellent for me, and I've never been striked at using this method. I will do this with all my "dangerous" snakes, because it makes them so much calmer with picking them up.

Lots of text, sorry guys. Some of it could be wrong, but this is about as much as I understood when I was gathering information on retics and sd's.

[GpBp]

Here is a great thread about super dwarf care. It also explains things about size and local like the "kalatoa"

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Information

Thank you!! Super helpful!! I think I should look at kalatoa crosses (if that's a thing...). Might be the biggest thing though, will all SD's grow to eat rabbits? They are pricey! Would it be possible to do like 3 jumbo rats..? Thank you! I'm understanding a bit more

[Aedryan Methyus]

Hey! So I got this notification on my phone and thought I might as well elaborate on my experiences as I own a SUPER TINY super dwarf retic (picture below for seeing super tiny).

So, first things first, I have an adult corn, a juvenile Russian rat snake, and then I went on to a snake exposition and met two cool dudes from the UK, their company was named Ridgeway Exotics.
The reason I met them is because of all the snakes I saw (or should I say ball pythons, that was 90% of the show) I found the ONLY orange and purple snake. What!? I have never seen that before!
I started gathering information. She was a super dwarf they said, and I was skeptical about it. So he showed me pictures of the mother and wow was she tiny, I couldn't believe to be so lucky! They actually let me hold her for a bit because I was so curious how a reticulated python would behave.

She was sweet, a true sight to behold. I wasn't planning on getting a snake at all.. But this, I imagined, when was I ever going to see such a beauty like her again? I'll tell you, never, all the shows I went to after I haven't found a single one!

So I pondered and took a walk, actually hoping someone else would take her before I could because I was nervous as hell about their behaviour as some point in the future, I've seen some nasty videos..

My girlfriend convinced me to get her, so I walked back, got her, got all the required things at that show too, and I couldn't be happier I tell you! How I love this snake!

So, her behaviour.. She had a time where she was pissed off at everything. Striked the glass continously as someone walked by. I went on a forum to see how I could correct this and they advised tap training her. I've been doing so for half a year now and it's working out great. She calmed down because the hook tells her what's going to happen, very intelligent snakes I tell you!
She's super chill now and even my mother of 64 will hold her!

So now about her size right? I have high expectations that she's going to stay really, really small. She's almost a year old now and she's still really tiny, and I mean really tiny. She's about 60cm, or 2 feet. I've seen year old 81.5% super dwarfs that are bigger than my adult corn snake.... Her diet exists out of a fuzzy rat right now, every 1.5 to 2 weeks. (and that leaves a HUGE bulge! Sometimes I think she might burst but snakes can stretch so far!) I want to keep her small, as I'm not looking forward to feeding rabbits .

I thought about this and discussed about it as well, in the wild they don't find food for maybe weeks, snakes can go on for a really long time without feeding and they survive. Snakes will manage a lot!
Above all she's super healthy, all over the place (I put a wooden perch against the glass so she can climb, and sometimes actually sits like a morelia viridis lol) and just very well behaved. I can read her very well I'd like to think.

So that's about it. A lot more text than I imagined I would write but I hope this was helpful to see a sort of new owner talk about these kind of snakes.

I'll post a few pictures now, of her pattern, her size, and just some nice ones. (hope it's not too huge of size, I'm posting from my phone lol)

Meet Juno, the 75% super dwarf retic purple morph het for snow!

Thanks for sharing your story, Shevi. She really is a stunner! You never mentioned her locale and percentages. As I already mentioned, I received my first pair of 25% Kalatoas just yesterday. They will be 1 year old in April and May and are only eating rat pups. I am totally blown away by how tiny they are for 1 year old Retics! From what I can tell, my girl is probably even a tad smaller than yours! My male is probably about the same size. These creatures are just sooo insanely beautiful, beautiful, though! There is no doubt, who the new king and queen are in my snake room!

[xShevi]

Thanks for sharing your story, Shevi. She really is a stunner! You never mentioned her locale and percentages. As I already mentioned, I received my first pair of 25% Kalatoas just yesterday. They will be 1 year old in April and May and are only eating rat pups. I am totally blown away by how tiny they are for 1 year old Retics! From what I can tell, my girl is probably even a tad smaller than yours! My male is probably about the same size. These creatures are just sooo insanely beautiful, beautiful, though! There is no doubt, who the new king and queen are in my snake room!

She's a 75% madu super dwarf het for snow too!

Thank you!! Super helpful!! I think I should look at kalatoa crosses (if that's a thing...). Might be the biggest thing though, will all SD's grow to eat rabbits? They are pricey! Would it be possible to do like 3 jumbo rats..? Thank you! I'm understanding a bit more

Yeah, they could eat jumbo rats no problem! Just don't overfeed when they're young and then you're gucci

[cchardwick]

On a side note I saw a thread that said the size of the snake is about which was originally used as the male and female and %SD doesn't matter as much. For example, take a pure SD male and mate it with a monster Mainland female. You will get lots of big eggs with big hatchlings that turn into big snakes. But if you did it the other way around, use a mature SD female and a young Mainland male. Now your eggs will come from the SD female and will be much smaller and you'll have smaller hatchlings and smaller snakes overall. I never tried this myself or have seen a direct comparison side by side but it makes sense to me.

So bottom line, you could have two 50% SD snakes coming from the same line of SD and Mainland and end up with two completely different size offspring (having different size potentials as adults) depending on which was originally the male and female.

Also, feeding has little to do with the final size of the snake. You can feed a corn snake as much as you want all day long and it will never get to the size of a boa, it's all about genetics at that point.