Hatchlings on ASF rats?

[Nathanhimmerich]

I'm about to start a small colony of rats to simplify ball python feeding and guarantee quality. I would prefer to feed ASF rats for a few reasons but am aware of the pros and cons and don't need to be convinced to use domestic rats.

What I'm wondering is whether it would bother a buyer of a ball python hatchling if they were started on ASF pups. They may have a harder time transitioning to domestic rats BUT it's their natural prey item anyways. I personally find it a little silly to argue that I'm spoiling the hatchlings and it'll be harder for a buyer when they don't spoil them. I'd rather know they're eating the best I can offer.

The concern I have is potential buyers' opinions. So I must ask: would you be bothered if a hatchling you intend on buying was started on ASFs?

[Seven-Thirty]

It all depends on what you or the customer have access to you. Where I am, ASFs are extremely easy to come by so ASFs are not a problem for me but for other it may not be easy and as such they would care if a hatchling was started on ASFs over rats but if the hatchlings eat rats as well as asfs soon after I dont think there is a problem at the end of the day.

[Nathanhimmerich]

Yea, that's another factor to consider. Noone near me breeds ASFs. I'd have to drive 4 hours to get to the nearest public breeder. It is more reason to breed them BUT more reason to maybe feed hatchlings normal rats.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Starting them is one thing but it comes down to starting and switching, for example I start everything on mice for 1 simple reasons, I get a higher success rate on getting started animals early if the first 2 to 3 meals are mice compare to rats, however snakes that I sell are all switched to rats (I switch them usually within 3 to 5 meals)

Does it make a difference? Not sure if my buyers care or not but the sooner you switch an animal the easier it is, and some people might not know how to do that efficiently or not wanting to bother with switching which can take time, and ultimately feeding rats is what people do because one prey is just more convenient.

Personally do I care nope I actually never even ask what prey type the animal I am buying is eating, because I know that if it's a young animal I will have him switch in 5 to 10 meals.

Ball pythons do not generally imprint on ASF like they do mice or rats making it easy to switch them to either, but you need to be upfront with the buyers and let them decide if they want to take a chance.

[Ladybugzcrunch]

I start everything on domestic rats. I do not keep, nor have any interest in keeping mice or asf. I have made two purchases in which I required the animal to take a rat before I bought (these were expensive morphs though and I did not want to chance a mouser). I do not ask about healthy looking lower dollar morph babies, but sometimes I can see where it would make a difference. My babies all have eventually taken a rat fuzzy but I do agree that it takes a bit longer for some as opposed to offering mouse hoppers. Personally, I would hesitate to buy an expensive morph that has been offered exclusively a prey item they I do not have access to.

[bcr229]

I have a few BP that only take live ASF and fortunately I have a local supplier. I can tell you that they were stupid cheap to purchase (think $100 for two-gene proven breeder females) b/c almost no one wants snakes that only take ASF.

[Kcl]

I wouldn't want to buy a hatchling that was eating ASF only personally. Getting ASF for me would require driving an hour and buying them live whereas the food for everyone I have now I buy frozen every couple months at either the expo an hour away or the other one that's half an hour away.

While I could switch the hatchling over on my own, I wouldn't really want to do it until I was sure it was eating properly in its new home which would mean feeding its normal diet for a while. So that would mean weekly two-hour round trips, assuming the guy has the right size of ASF in stock, and killing small rodents myself. Not at all tempting if I have other options.

Now if you were also offering a convenient source of frozen ASF? That's a different question. That would be a much easier sell for me personally, but I don't know whether it would be a good business proposition overall or not.

[cchardwick]

I'm pretty sure the ASF is still listed on the Lacy Act and interstate transportation is illegal. That means that if everyone in your state stops producing them they will pretty much go 'extinct' in that state and it's illegal to bring them back. Then the only way to get them legally would be to ship them in frozen. At the local Repicon here in Colorado last fall there was a guy selling live African Soft Fur rats, I was actually surprised. The prices were really low too and he was selling a bunch of them.

I used to raise all three, Rats, ASF, and mice. I found that the ASF were very slow to produce, in fact they became more like pets than feeders. I could almost produce 5 - 10 times as many offspring with my rats and mice compared to ASF. I finally got rid of them all. One thing I do like about ASF though is that they don't get too big for ball pythons. My rat breeders get massive and I need a dwarf retic to eat them once they get too old LOL. And my mice don't really get big enough to feed adult ball pythons.

If you decide to feed mainly ASF I would suggest giving the occasional rat or mouse once in awhile to mix it up a bit. I only have one snake out of almost 50 that is a mouser only and refuses to take a rat, although I haven't tried ASF with her. She was sold to me as a mouser and at nearly 3000 grams it takes quite a few mice to satisfy her! She used to pound multiple mice back to back, now that she is nice and plump with a good body condition I just give her one adult mouse per week and she is maintaining her body condition.

[Nathanhimmerich]

I'm in Florida and at least currently they are legal. I'm leaning moreso towards domestic rats at this point because of the way some hatchlings CAN get stuck on ASFs and the lower production rate of ASFs, also the limited availability in my area. In the scenario that I would want to introduce new blood in the colony, I would have difficulty.

I still would prefer my BPs to be on ASFs, but it seems too difficult mostly because of the limited availability. I'm still curious about the dialogue so I'll keep the poll and thread going, but I'm leaning towards domestic rats for now.

Thank you for your input!

[AbsoluteApril]

It would greatly deter me from purchasing since ASFs are illegal here in CA.