SpringTails?

[philip444]

I just got my fist ball python and she is living on coco fiber substrate because going into the winter months i need higher humidity retention. but i was wondering if i should add some pringtails to help with poo and fungus and the like.i would still spot clean but it is not a vivarium. long story short. should i add springtails to a non vivarium setup?

[Starscream]

Probably not, since you'll be doing full cleanings every so often, and if you dump the substrate you're dumping the springtails as well. If you want a clean up crew it'd probably be best to look into bioactive substrates and how to sustain a springtail population, because either way you'll still be spot-cleaning even months down the line. It takes a while for their population to build to adequate numbers to actually be an effective clean up crew. And you'd have to feed them during the times your snake isn't providing them with something to eat, hence leaf litter in most setups.

Bioactive setups take a lot of research and time to maintain. It's recommended that you already have the substrate in and let the plants and CUC grow for at least 3 months before introducing the animal, so it can cycle and cut out mold and unwanted parasites (gnats, namely) that pop up, and be able to handle waste from a large animal in such a small space.

[philip444]

Probably not, since you'll be doing full cleanings every so often, and if you dump the substrate you're dumping the springtails as well. If you want a clean up crew it'd probably be best to look into bioactive substrates and how to sustain a springtail population, because either way you'll still be spot-cleaning even months down the line. It takes a while for their population to build to adequate numbers to actually be an effective clean up crew. And you'd have to feed them during the times your snake isn't providing them with something to eat, hence leaf litter in most setups.

Bioactive setups take a lot of research and time to maintain. It's recommended that you already have the substrate in and let the plants and CUC grow for at least 3 months before introducing the animal, so it can cycle and cut out mold and unwanted parasites (gnats, namely) that pop up, and be able to handle waste from a large animal in such a small space.

thanks for the advice. i figured i wouldent want to add em cuz i would just be dumping em. well i planned on making a complete bio active enclosure so ill just end up doing that. Thanks Friend

[Coluber42]

For what it's worth, I think it is possible to start up a bioactive setup with the animal already living in it (I'm thinking of trying it myself and researching it). As I understand it, the biggest reason to set it up in advance is so that the plants can get established enough to have a decent shot at surviving getting sat on all the time.

But there's nothing to stop you from putting in the soil, leaf litter, and bugs and letting them get established slowly while your snake is already living there too. Worst thing that happens is that you have to spot clean in the meantime until your cleaners can take care of it. But you have to spot clean now anyway. I can't think of any reason you should ever have to dump the whole tub though.

You do have to provide an environment the cleaners can live in - that means soil deep enough that the lower part can be pretty humid while the top is dry enough for the snake, and/or rocks or logs or things the cleaners can hide out under, and leaf litter for them to eat. You can't just dump springtails into a tub that has half an inch of aspen or coco fiber and expect them to survive or do much of anything.

A few inches of soil instead of just a thin layer of loose substrate does have a higher capacity to hold moisture, which should help you keep the humidity up. The springtails help keep that soil clean and healthy.

[SDA]

Bioactive is just not something you want to do with zero previous experience in that field of hobby keeping. It is similar to live plant fresh water aquariums and coral reef salt water tanks. They are both very advanced husbandry care as is a healthy self contained bioactive terrestrial cage done correctly.

Just throwing springtails in a sanitary enclosure will do nothing but kill springtails. They don't raise humidity nor sanitize the enclosure without very specific conditions that require far more work and understanding that most people want to give. Add in that ball pythons specifically are environmentally destructive in a closed cage and that the individual husbandry requirements for tropical plants (the type you would keep), micro and invertebrate organism, and the snake it self are not always kosher with each other.

If you want to do a bioactive, start small and learn what you need to do by doing. The people you watch that do these setups have tons of prior experience that facilitates them being able to do this and even they still fail (that is the nature of these setups). Don't just throw yourself into something over your head and risk endangering your snake in the process through experimentation because you saw a cool video or setup at an expo. Oh yeah and it can get pretty expensive if you don't already have experience with the individual components of this type of system (plants, humidity, organisms, soil, drainage, etc).

[philip444]

Bioactive is just not something you want to do with zero previous experience in that field of hobby keeping. It is similar to live plant fresh water aquariums and coral reef salt water tanks. They are both very advanced husbandry care as is a healthy self contained bioactive terrestrial cage done correctly.

Just throwing springtails in a sanitary enclosure will do nothing but kill springtails. They don't raise humidity nor sanitize the enclosure without very specific conditions that require far more work and understanding that most people want to give. Add in that ball pythons specifically are environmentally destructive in a closed cage and that the individual husbandry requirements for tropical plants (the type you would keep), micro and invertebrate organism, and the snake it self are not always kosher with each other.

If you want to do a bioactive, start small and learn what you need to do by doing. The people you watch that do these setups have tons of prior experience that facilitates them being able to do this and even they still fail (that is the nature of these setups). Don't just throw yourself into something over your head and risk endangering your snake in the process through experimentation because you saw a cool video or setup at an expo. Oh yeah and it can get pretty expensive if you don't already have experience with the individual components of this type of system (plants, humidity, organisms, soil, drainage, etc).

thank you for the reply. i have actually had aquariums with live plants for most of my life. i also have kept tarantulas and other inverts with springtails and the springtails were able to thrive, of course tarantuala enclosures are MUCH smaller. the cost and care of live plants in a "dry" environment are the reasons im not starting with it(though i would still like to eventually make one). i actually prefer easier to maintain enclosures. it was just a curious point i thought i would ask. i culture my own springtails so it would not be a major loss of investment or time. it was an interesting question to me having kept springtails in many strange enclosures