Water snakes and Belly Heat :/

[BallPythonWannaBe]

So...another thread. I've seen several Water snake ads and thought I'd look more into it so I looked up caresheets. I cant find very much info and what I can find seems to differ greatly. Does anyone know a good caresheet or own Water snakes?

Also I have spoken to a few garter snake owners who dont use belly heat with their snakes and they breed them and say the snakes digest fine. I was wondering if this is actually okay? With the use of an overheat heat sorce like a red bulb I mean. Just wondering as I cant find anything to really awnser these questions on internet! Thanks

[John1982]

So...another thread. I've seen several Water snake ads and thought I'd look more into it so I looked up caresheets. I cant find very much info and what I can find seems to differ greatly. Does anyone know a good caresheet or own Water snakes?

Also I have spoken to a few garter snake owners who dont use belly heat with their snakes and they breed them and say the snakes digest fine. I was wondering if this is actually okay? With the use of an overheat heat sorce like a red bulb I mean. Just wondering as I cant find anything to really awnser these questions on internet! Thanks

I'm sure you can find some decent care sheets for water snakes(Nerodia) if you google around. Not super popular keepers but they do have a niche following so you could probably find some captive born animals without much trouble. The biggest mistake people tend to make keeping them is not offering enough dry land area which can lead to blister and rot issues. It's fine to have a large water area(headache keeping clean, mind) but your snake also needs a fair bit of land. They usually do better kept in a mostly dry setup with just a larger water dish/tub that you can easily remove and clean.

The purpose of heat sources is to help reach target temperatures. If your house ambient temps match up with their natural ranges there's not really a need for additional heating and using too much can even lead to discomfort or death from overheating - why thermostats are so highly recommended. Some north american colubrids do perfectly fine kept without additional heat as long as your house temps range in the mid to upper 70s. Ambients in my reptile room range from 76(early morning) to 82(mid afternoon) in the summer months. I only use additional heat on a few of my animals from warmer climates.

[Regius_049]

So...another thread. I've seen several Water snake ads and thought I'd look more into it so I looked up caresheets. I cant find very much info and what I can find seems to differ greatly. Does anyone know a good caresheet or own Water snakes?

Also I have spoken to a few garter snake owners who dont use belly heat with their snakes and they breed them and say the snakes digest fine. I was wondering if this is actually okay? With the use of an overheat heat sorce like a red bulb I mean. Just wondering as I cant find anything to really awnser these questions on internet! Thanks

Most colubrids have very similar care requirements and the vast majority will do well with an ambient of around 73-76 F and a hot spot at 85 F. In the past, I used to keep kingsnakes at room temperature and feed them once a week. They always accepted food and appeared to digest just fine. I never had a regurgitation or health issue of any kind. They are a pretty robust snake family.

That said, I feel they greatly benefit from a warm spot. After providing one, I notice my California kingsnakes hug it quite often with an ambient of 75 F, particularly after eating. It does not matter if the hot spot is achieved by a UTH (belly heat) or an overhead heat lamp/CHE. There is nothing special about belly heat, the snake simply needs a source of heat to assist in thermoregulation.

As for water snakes, despite their name and propensity to eat fish, they don't need a huge source of it. Captive water snakes will do just fine with a clean water dish of a size that they can soak in if they wish (per John1982's suggestion). Most keepers I know use the same substrates you would for other reptiles (aspen, reptile carpet, etc.). Personally, I think cypress mulch is probably the best choice. For feeding, the best success seems to come from feeding live fish and amphibians supplemented with mice (frozen or live).

[BallPythonWannaBe]

Thanks for your replys! My house averages around 75 and drops into the high 60's at night. If you dont mind me asking, which animals do you not use additional heat with?

[John1982]

Thanks for your replys! My house averages around 75 and drops into the high 60's at night. If you dont mind me asking, which animals do you not use additional heat with?

In summer months I don't use additional heat for the indigo, mussurana, false water cobras, corns, bulls, pines, garters, carpet pythons, timor pythons or papuan python. Basically, the only snakes in my reptile room who have additional heat during the summer are the black-headed pythons. There's about a 5-6 degree difference in temperature from the floor to the ceiling, in additional to the 5-6 degree swing I get in a 24 hour period, in my reptile room. I use this to position animals accordingly - warmer loving species are higher up and less heat tolerant animals are closer to the floor. I also offer UVB lights to the garters, which gives them a slightly warmer basking option, but all the others simply get a natural photoperiod from south and west facing windows.

[BallPythonWannaBe]

I love Falsies You have a very diverse collection!

[BallPythonWannaBe]

Also you said you keep Indigos? How are their temperments?

[Jhill001]

Belly heat is not a requirement for any snake, the only direction snakes gain heat faster is through their backs, it's why species from cooler areas have darker coloration on their backs compared to their stomachs so they can gain heat faster from the sun. The belly heat requirement myth comes from heat pads/heat tape being really easy to use, they advise another keeper to use them, then so on so forth it becomes the only way because everyone wants to think they are right.

Water snakes do well when they aren't allowed to be perpetually wet, in fact they don't really seem to NEED a large water bowl however that aspect is kinda what makes them cool in my experience. My friend keeps his in screen top aquariums with CHE heating and a UVB hood, while rodent eating species don't need UVB there is a little bit of contradictory evidence showing that snakes that don't primarily eat mice (IE garters, green snakes, water snakes) do benefit from that UVB. These species also happen to be much more avid baskers in the wild than most rodent eating species.

How complex you want to make a setup is going to be up to your own experience level and ambition. I saw one at an aquarium that was basically a spectacular palladarium with rocks and plants it was really cool but that's gonna be outside the scope of many folks.

Feeding these guys is also a special requirement. Many people purchase whole fish, fish fillets, etc, add the necessary supplements (calcium, vitamins etc) and blend it up and create jello with it. Type in "fish jello for snakes" and go to the thamnophis forum that shows up and read up on it. These snakes (not the green snake as it's an insectivore) can be raised on mice only diets and many do however the really avid keepers seem to feel as if too many rodents will cause similar issues with these species as feeding too many rodents to say a bearded dragon in terms of liver issues from too much fat.

In terms of finding CB specimens, facebook groups dedicated to garters, water snakes and the like are going to be the place to find breeders and other advice.

[BallPythonWannaBe]

Belly heat is not a requirement for any snake, the only direction snakes gain heat faster is through their backs, it's why species from cooler areas have darker coloration on their backs compared to their stomachs so they can gain heat faster from the sun. The belly heat requirement myth comes from heat pads/heat tape being really easy to use, they advise another keeper to use them, then so on so forth it becomes the only way because everyone wants to think they are right.

Water snakes do well when they aren't allowed to be perpetually wet, in fact they don't really seem to NEED a large water bowl however that aspect is kinda what makes them cool in my experience. My friend keeps his in screen top aquariums with CHE heating and a UVB hood, while rodent eating species don't need UVB there is a little bit of contradictory evidence showing that snakes that don't primarily eat mice (IE garters, green snakes, water snakes) do benefit from that UVB. These species also happen to be much more avid baskers in the wild than most rodent eating species.

How complex you want to make a setup is going to be up to your own experience level and ambition. I saw one at an aquarium that was basically a spectacular palladarium with rocks and plants it was really cool but that's gonna be outside the scope of many folks.

Feeding these guys is also a special requirement. Many people purchase whole fish, fish fillets, etc, add the necessary supplements (calcium, vitamins etc) and blend it up and create jello with it. Type in "fish jello for snakes" and go to the thamnophis forum that shows up and read up on it. These snakes (not the green snake as it's an insectivore) can be raised on mice only diets and many do however the really avid keepers seem to feel as if too many rodents will cause similar issues with these species as feeding too many rodents to say a bearded dragon in terms of liver issues from too much fat.

In terms of finding CB specimens, facebook groups dedicated to garters, water snakes and the like are going to be the place to find breeders and other advice.

Thank you! That really clears it up I was actually reading the Diy garter diet thread and saw that they had mentioned using it for water snakes. It didn't look terribly complicated

[Jhill001]

Thank you! That really clears it up I was actually reading the Diy garter diet thread and saw that they had mentioned using it for water snakes. It didn't look terribly complicated

It doesn't. You just buy frozen fish as you see it go on sale, keep it in the fridge till you need to make the next batch of jello, I imagine that helps keep the cost down to an extent. If you were going to get fresh fillets every time it needed to eat they would be obnoxiously expensive.