Spider with very little "wobble"

[oodaT]

So I've been watching alot of videos and reading a lot on the "wobble". So far I've not noticed hardly any, not even when she feeds. Some places I've read said it could act up more as they grow older and some say that it may stay very minimal. Just wondering what you guys/girls think. Moving her up to rat fuzzy next feeding as she pounded down 2 hoppers. The most I've noticed was this inverted swallowing like she got disoriented.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[PythonBabes]

Wobble is the reason I'll never own a spider, probably no champagne or woma either.

I've seen absolute train wrecks, corkscrewing for long periods of time, can't even eat type wobble and then I've seen very mild wobble where the only noticeable thing is that they miss a lot when striking. You never know what you're going to get since a bp with an almost not even there wobble can produce a baby with a severe wobble and vice versa. I've never heard that it gets worse with age though. I have heard that stress will make the wobble get really bad, don't know how true that is.

[SDA]

I don't like when I hear people get scared about spider wobble. Stress can cause wobble to be more noticeable but as they get older they adjust to it and lead perfectly normal lives. I would never consider my baby damaged goods because he has moderate wobble.

BTW ine eats all sorts of strange directions and never has any issues.

[BluuWolf]

It all just depends on the animal. Some will have no wobble as babies then get one when they are older and some will have it as babies and grow out of it, some will show little to no wobble their whole lives. It all depends. Severe wobbles aren't super common though so I really wouldn't worry about that. Yeah they are a big quirky but for the most part they live normal lives and eat just fine.

My girl has only shown a wobble one feeding when she got really excited, but the most it did was cause her to miss her first strike and have to try again.

Sent from my LG-D690 using Tapatalk

[oodaT]

oh im by no means scared, i love her to pieces, i know its nothing thats going to harm her. would just be something that might freak someone out that didn't know any better about the gene. her feeding strike is actually more accurate than my "normal" girl as it took her 3 strike last feeding and my spider nailed it first strike(both hoppers). Sorry if my OP came off as sounding scared of the wobble, was basically wondering how others felt about it and how their spiders progressed over the years.

[oodaT]

We hanging out now going through the forum lol

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[rufretic]

I have 3 spider combos, bumble bee, killer bee and disco bee. They pretty much display all three levels of wobble from non existent to severe. Not one of them is there any reason not to have as a pet. On average they are my best eaters and most human tolerant or what some people would call tame. They all live great lives or I wouldn't own one, why would anyone want an animal that seems to be suffering? There has to be 100s of thousands of spiders out there and anyone that owns one will tell you they live perfectly normal lives with or without wobble. Yet people still get scared off and miss out on owning one of the best morphs out there. It's a shame a video of one of the most extreme cases of wobble gets out there and every person that's never owned a spider thinks that's normal and vows to never own one, it's kind of ridiculous actually. There is no good reason to not own a spider morph unless it's personal opinion that you don't like the look. The fear of wobble should not stop people from enjoying this great morph. If your that worried about if check out the snake in person before you make a decision and if it isn't doing anything crazy, you'll be fine, a little excitement at feeding time may make them show a little but it doesn't affect the snake negatively in any way.

[ladywhipple02]

On average they are my best eaters and most human tolerant or what some people would call tame.

I've had a few spiders/spider combos and I've noticed this trend as well. Despite their flaws, they always seem to be great eaters and very, very "friendly". They don't really even ball up as much as your typical BP would, are extremely curious when they're outside of their enclosures, and I've never, ever had one strike at me. Perhaps this is a link in their neuro issues. In any case, I don't see how they would make bad pets. They eat, they poop, they do BPs things. They just do them a little bit goofier than your average snake.

I think they're wonderful personally. They are one of my favorite morphs.

[Regius_049]

There has to be 100s of thousands of spiders out there and anyone that owns one will tell you they live perfectly normal lives with or without wobble. Yet people still get scared off and miss out on owning one of the best morphs out there. It's a shame a video of one of the most extreme cases of wobble gets out there and every person that's never owned a spider thinks that's normal and vows to never own one, it's kind of ridiculous actually. There is no good reason to not own a spider morph unless it's personal opinion that you don't like the look. The fear of wobble should not stop people from enjoying this great morph.

I normally keep my opinions to myself regarding the morphs with known issues (i.e. spider ball pythons, enigma leopard geckos, etc.), but to say it's ridiculous not to want to own one or there is no good reason is pretty absurd. There are a bazillion ball python morphs out there without known issues you could pick from with good temperament, feeding response, or whatever features you might desire in a ball python. People are picking a spider for one reason only: the aesthetic. I come from a background in dog breeding and responsible breeders there go through a great deal of trouble to select for dogs with good temperament, OFA graded hips, CERF eye certifications, etc. In effect, breeding for health. No reputable breeder would breed a dog with bad hips/eyes just because it "looks nice". Now I own a variety of reptile morphs within my personal collection from ball pythons to tokay geckos, but I have mixed feelings on them. One of my main concerns is that reptiles move more and more towards being a major source of profit via trying to create newer and better morphs and while often this encourages new blood to enter the hobby (which is great), a slow but certain departure from health and well-being starts often starts to occur. A prime example of this is the current issues facing the eastern indigo snake. People bred snakes together with unknown lineages and slowly, but surely, the inbreeding began to take its toll. Many big breeders however still deny that it is an issue. The standard justification helping their cause is a set of vocal individuals saying some permutation of "well my snake from breeder x does just fine".

It kind of perplexes me the lengths people to make their enclosures or husbandry "perfect" in regards to ideal humidity, prey size, or whatever. If humidity goes above ~ 70% there is a thread on how to make it exactly 60% for example. To have such an obsession of these (often inconsequential) details on making everything perfect then buy a snake with a known neurological defect? I understand if you rescue the snake or take from a friend who can't care for it, but to actually go out and buy one is another story. If I were to propose using an animal with known neurological issues in a breeding program to a group of individuals outside what I will call "the spider ball python debate" just because I liked his/her aesthetics, I would get concerns or push-back with almost near certainty. I am not going to speculate on a ball python's "happiness", but to say it has no effect on the animals welfare is likely naive. There is actually paper published in the journal of exotic pet medicine on the topic By Rose et al. The authors note that "side-to side head tremors, incoordination, erratic corkscrewing of the head and neck, inhibited righting reflex, torticollis (neck spasms), poor muscle tone, and loose grip with the tail” have all been observed as issues associated with the spider gene and its "wobble". They go on to say that most scientists versed in animal welfare perceived a moderate to high welfare impact from the disorder due to additional stress and impaired ability to perform certain species specific behaviors such as feeding and proper locomotion.

You are right that within a captive setting most spider ball pythons and other morphs with known issues "do just fine" and you are certainly entitled to your opinion and to own whatever ball pythons you wish, but breeding snakes with known issues is not something I can encourage.

[ladywhipple02]

Every time the "spider issue" comes up, someone wants to make the comparison back to bad dog breeding habits. While I get the point trying to be made - and have considered it myself in the past - I'm not sure I can bring myself to take it seriously.

Defects in dogs bring about known, painful, and life-shortening harm to the animal. I have German Shepherds, and the amount of people that buy a dog without getting their lineages checked for hip problems is astounding. A dog like a GSD needs interaction and exercise and stimulation, and it's easy to make the argument that one born with hip defects will not live a fulfilling life, especially if that life-span is drastically shortened.

The same can't be said for a snake. We keep these animals in small, contained cages. They do not require interaction or stimulation beyond being fed regularly. Most of the time they're curled up in one spot. They live the same amount of time another snake would. Their lives are not shortened, their interaction is not changed, they eat, they poop, they live their lives as any other snake would.

I'm just not buying it. If there's a better comparison out there, I'm all for hearing it. But being that snakes require so little in the way of care and interaction is most likely why we don't see the same stipulations and lineage tracking as we do around dogs. I'm not sure we ever will... and the "spider issue" is going to be left to personal preference and opinion.