Breeding Standards

[Eric Alan]

Just don't understand why there is a market that profits more off defects that are not what the breeder was even attempting to do just had a fluke and got a weird pattern and now wants to charge extra.

What exactly are you talking about when you keep bringing this up? What specific situation(s) can you show as evidence? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so if you could help shed some light on this for me I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[JodanOrNoDan]

No one with integrity needs a standard to tell them they should not buy a kinked animal for breeding.

Correct, however how about if the animal is not kinked and you don't know that the line has a kinking problem? I don't want to derail my own thread, but in this case an animal that is flawed at the foundation is being covered up by some pretty paint.

I fire people for this type of stuff in my business.

[Unknown Subscriber]

What exactly are you talking about when you keep bringing this up? What specific situation(s) can you show as evidence? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so if you could help shed some light on this for me I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

I'm not going to call anyone out. But I have seen more than a few ball pythons for sale with descriptors like "one of a kind" & "unique pattern" and these animals are always a couple hundred dollars more than the other snakes of the same morph at the same size and age they are selling.

[Eric Alan]

Correct, however how about if the animal is not kinked and you don't know that the line has a kinking problem?

Is that something you see being covered-up a lot in this hobby? I'd argue that, if anything, that kind of trait gets brought to everyone's attention even faster and gets shunned pretty quickly.

[Eric Alan]

I'm not going to call anyone out. But I have seen more than a few ball pythons for sale with descriptors like "one of a kind" & "unique pattern" and these animals are always a couple hundred dollars more than the other snakes of the same morph at the same size and age they are selling.

This doesn't clarify anything. It sounds like you have a personal beef with someone and all of this talk has been a long way around complaining about it. Why shouldn't a one-of-a-kind or unique animal be priced more than one that's cookie-cutter? If you don't want to make it public, feel free to PM me and we can discuss there.

[JodanOrNoDan]

As a reality check, think about something for a moment....

We rate animals all the time on this board. Sometimes people are just being nice and sometimes they are being honest. I will pick on myself as an example.

My daughter talked me into buying an animal that she thought was beautiful and she just had to have it. I, in my infinite wisdom thought it may be axanthic. I posted it and you guys basically told me it was just an ugly browned out pastel.

My mojos tend to go over very well here but in honesty I think I have better ones than the ones I have posted.

I PM'd a pick of my, at that time, single lesser girl. I personally think she is a 10 as to what I believe that morph should be. The person rating her didn't seem to think so. In this case the two of us were operating under two different definitions of the same morph. Both of us were right in our own worlds. There shouldn't be two different worlds.

Long story short, we already rate the animals. In my opinion it would be nice to formalize it a bit.

[Eric Alan]

My daughter talked me into buying an animal that she thought was beautiful and she just had to have it. I, in my infinite wisdom thought it may be axanthic. I posted it and you guys basically told me it was just an ugly browned out pastel.

Does any of that take away from the beauty your daughter sees/saw in the animal? Why?

Both of us were right in our own worlds. There shouldn't be two different worlds.

Why not?

[ladywhipple02]

The hobby already rates the animals.

Maybe it's not standardized by a committee, but it's there: the "JKobylka lines" and "Ralph Davis lines" and the "BHB lines"... or in the boa world "Gus Renfro lines" or "Russo lines." Stick around the hobby long enough and you start to learn where the quality is, purely based on the line names. And you see these lines drawing higher dollar amounts than others because people know they're proven and throw quality stock.

Why would you want to formalize it?

[JodanOrNoDan]

Is that something you see being covered-up a lot in this hobby? I'd argue that, if anything, that kind of trait gets brought to everyone's attention even faster and gets shunned pretty quickly.

Yes, maybe if the seller is nice they will warn you about the risks if you attempt to breed or any quirks the animal may have. In reality I have bought a few spiders in my day, even from people with stellar reputations. The people selling me the animals had no way of knowing how experienced I am and not once was I warned about what I was buying even when the animals were train wrecks. The only animal I have ever seen a warning on anywhere are desert females. I do not deal with any of the known kinkers so I cannot comment specifically on that defect.

[JodanOrNoDan]

The hobby already rates the animals.

Maybe it's not standardized by a committee, but it's there: the "JKobylka lines" and "Ralph Davis lines" and the "BHB lines"... or in the boa world "Gus Renfro lines" or "Russo lines." Stick around the hobby long enough and you start to learn where the quality is, purely based on the line names. And you see these lines drawing higher dollar amounts than others because people know they're proven and throw quality stock.

Why would you want to formalize it?

Because my direct from Ralph Davis phantom is the smallest and in my opinion ugliest phantom in my collection. I do not even know who the original breeder was for the phantom line I am working now but he is throwing babies I would rate near 10.