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Thread: Hybrid pythons

  1. #11
    BPnet Veteran AbsoluteApril's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by zina10 View Post
    Some of the hybrids being bred come from completely different areas. There is no chance at all that they would "naturally" occur.
    just a small note - ATB x ETB have occurred in the wild but it does seem to be quite rare.
    For the Horde!

  2. #12
    Registered User AntTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    I see no problem with creating hybrids as keeping captive snakes is not a natural situation from their enclosures to selective breeding for traits. Many people in the industry create hybrids without knowing it because there is not a very good understanding of species with serpents. When classifications change due to scientific research one species may become two. Without breeding to very specific localities you run the risk of unintentionally creating hybrids. This is currently taking place with eastern indigos. As ball pythons have never really been bred for locality there is a chance we are already creating hybrids. The crossing that amazes me the most are woman x ball pythons. They are just such entirely different animals that I think it incredible that they can interbreed.
    RAD House Reptiles

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  4. #13
    BPnet Senior Member Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    I'm sure I saw a case of a live bearer cross with an egg layer - about a year ago . That seems unlikely or even impossible so maybe it was a fake !?!

  5. #14
    BPnet Veteran redshepherd's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by redshepherd View Post
    Crossing a semi-arboreal or arboreal with a terrestrial (or mostly terrestrial) species like balls makes me wonder if they retain more of their arboreal nature or not? Do they still retain their arboreal instinct, but they don't have the body for it anymore? Do only some babies get an arboreal instinct, and some don't?

    Anyway, I like carpondros! I think there's nothing wrong with crossing arboreal to semi-arboreal/arboreal, or terrestrial to terrestrial. It's not "natural", but neither is breeding ball python morphs. It's all within the pet population, and doesn't affect the wild population in any way. So if the animal is healthy and thriving, and responsible owners care for them, who cares?
    (replying to my own comment lol) Someone on another site brought up a good point about hybrids actually, that's kinda related to what I was wondering. Since genetics is not a 50/50 cross, there's the problem with not knowing the EXACT husbandry requirements each hybrid needs. Stuff like perches or ground hides/arboreal hides can all be provided, just in case, and that's easy to do. But what about exact heating and humidity needs of each pairing, each individual hybrid? There's no way to know, just guesswork.

    So in that case, I'm only vouching for hybrids with very similar temp and humidity needs.

    ETA: Lol I just realized zina basically brought up the same point!
    Last edited by redshepherd; 02-17-2017 at 04:22 AM.

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  6. #15
    Registered User BeelzeBall.'s Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by zina10 View Post
    To each their own.

    Personally , I'm not a fan.

    I don't think it is the same then breeding "morphs" at all. All morphs come from snakes that were collected in the wild. They are color mutations, much like Albino. They are naturally occurring. We just exploit and expand those traits. Sometimes, selective breeding doesn't just re-create certain colors, but also defective genes that come along with certain ones. But that is a different kind of ethics discussion.

    Some of the hybrids being bred come from completely different areas. There is no chance at all that they would "naturally" occur. Look at Blood Pythons and Ball Pythons. Blood pythons come from southeast Asia region, Ball Pythons are found in sub-saharan Africa. Each of them have quite different husbandry needs.
    As is, there are to many snakes that aren't kept properly. Why muddy the pool with snakes that one has NO clue which way they should be kept ?? And going by "looks more this or that" will not help you. There is no way of knowing exactly how much DNA of each is in each individual hatchling. Its not the basic "50/50" or "25/75". That is not the way genetics work.
    So it will all be "trial and error".
    So why ?? Just because it looks cool ? Sometimes the phrase "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" comes to mind.

    Also, once you breed those hybrids to other snakes, you can end up with hatchlings that look like one particular species, but they truly aren't. And if they get mixed into the gene pool, you may never know what you may have.

    So no, I'm not a fan.

    But I respect that others may be. We all like different things and have different opinions

    gonna go with this^^^^

  7. #16
    Registered User cchardwick's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    Well I have to tell you that I'm actually working with what some people could consider a 'hybrid' species, specifically Reticulated Pythons. I'm actually crossing three different types of retics, the huge Mainlands, the mid sized Jampea Dwarfs, and the 'tiny' Super Dwarfs. The snakes are similar in that they look alike and have similar characteristics but they would never interact with each other in the wild since they come from different localities. And the size differences are huge, the Super Dwarfs getting the size of a large Coulbrid and the Mainland getting over 200 pounds!

    I'm crossing these snakes with a particular goal in mind and that is to shrink down the snakes to just about any size you want by combining different ratios of the three types as well as breeding back into the huge Mainland species to bring the morphs over to he smaller snakes. You really have to keep track of the percentage of each type of snake, for example my male is 37.5% Super Dwarf, 50% Jampea Dwarf, and 12.5% Mainland. And my female is 50% Jampea Dwarf and 50% Mainland. So the offspring will be 18.75% Super Dwarf, 50% Jampea Dwarf, and 31.25% Mainland. It's a bit confusing but as long as you can keep track of the genetics I think it's OK and you can pretty much determine how big the snake will get based on the percentage of the three, Mainland having the most influence. It's not an extreme example of a hybrid snake but I'd say it's still a hybrid.

    Here's my female 'Lucy' at 10 pounds, such a beautiful and wonderful snake! Super friendly, never showed any aggression at all:

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  9. #17
    BPnet Veteran enginee837's Avatar
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    Hybrid animals are nothing new and have been used to create animals better suited to our needs for years. A perfect example would be a mule.
    To each his/her own. If you like the possibilities and can create healthy animals, go for it.
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  10. #18
    BPnet Senior Member Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Hybrid pythons

    Quote Originally Posted by enginee837 View Post
    Hybrid animals are nothing new and have been used to create animals better suited to our needs for years. A perfect example would be a mule.
    To each his/her own. If you like the possibilities and can create healthy animals, go for it.
    Yeah , don't they say mongrels are healthier than pedigree dogs !?

  11. #19
    Registered User Aste88's Avatar
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    As long as the produced animal thrives and is sold as what it is I see nothing wrong there.
    Honestly I see more reason not to breed morph with neuro defects like spider (both my male breeder have spider btw, just saying).

    I agree saying 50% or 75% something has little use as we know nothing of how the genes combine.

    As far as the husbandry for such animals, the breeder should find out the proper parameters before selling or selling only to experienced keeper that know how to adjust it to the animal. After all nobody knew the proper temperatures and such when bp were first brought in captivity. I've read maternal incubation was considered the only viable way before figuring out the temperature and humidity requirement for the eggs.

    I see a lot of cateaters (burmese x african rock python) being sold in my area, they look amazing and have no health problem whatsoever.

    I might give it a shot to produce a carpondro someday.
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  13. #20
    BPnet Senior Member zina10's Avatar
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    My point wasn't about hybrids created by breeding different localities of the same species. Those are still related and have much of the same needs. That can "simply" muddy up the genetics until you cannot be sure of locality anymore. Some people are bothered by that, others are not.

    Then there are hybrids that aren't by the same species, but from the same general locality. They have similar needs, because they live in similar climates. They do occur in nature, but extremely rarely.

    "Hybrid vigor" doesn't actually apply to breeding snakes. Dogs come from wolves. Yet look at certain breeds such as the english bulldog. Severely compromised breathing due to the smooshed face. The giant breeds have a lowered life expectancy. The tiny breeds have other problems. The folded over ears that are prone to ear infections (no wild species of dogs or wolves have floppy ears). You get my point, in order to create the different dog breeds and the extremes we like, we have created some with health issues that are genetic. Same for cats. Even horses. Most modern Thoroughbreds have terrible hooves. Bones that have gotten to light (for speed). Quarterhorses with upright pastern for looks but not function. And so on and on. So hybrid vigor comes into play when you take those breeds with very specific and overbred traits and cross them with others. By doing that you sometimes get "mixes" that do not have the problems their individual parents have. Doesn't always work that way, though, but the more "mixed" the mix, the less of the extremes the parents might display.

    We haven't created wildly varying breeds of snakes. Yet. However, there is a good amount of "inbreeding" to get the color mutations we like. Some suffer health consequences because of that. But don't have to breed hybrids to make healthy snakes, you can just avoid "morphs" if you worry about genetic defects due to inbreeding.

    My point is, if you breed 2 snakes from completely different areas of the world, that have different husbandry needs, you do not create a "healthier" snake.

    You create something "different", something that wouldn't be found in nature. That appeals to some people and I understand that.

    The OP asked for opinions. And this is just "mine". I respect that others may disagree

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