RHP questions for cold room and T8

[AlbinoBull]

Ah yes, one of the many struggles of living in a northern state is the fact my room would be constantly dipping to ~65F at night or lower (sometimes in the day as well!) if it weren't for the fact I run a small heater all night and most the day. Rather than heat the room (two when I get more snakes and need to quarantine), I'm wondering if there might be a better option.

I've heard conflicting information on RHP raising ambient temperatures, so I want to double check and ask if it would be possible for a RHP of a proper size to keep a T8 warm even if the outside temperatures in the room are very low. If so, what size would you all recommend? I've been looking at Reptile Basics right now (feel free to suggest other/better brands), and their FAQ says an 80 watt would generally be used for a cool room OR a cage of this size. I'm unsure if an 80 watt would be good for the cool room AND this size, so I felt better asking here than later finding out I'm in need of a larger watt later on.

Also, if this is all possible, would the RHP be able to take over for the heat tape? Where exactly does the probe for a herpstat go? I've heard of some people attaching it to the panel itself while others say not to do that and it should be lower down, either attached for free floating. I fear if it were on the ground that Cinnamon Roll might lie on it, though, so that option makes me a little wary.

Thank you all in advance for your time and assistance!

[Regius_049]

Look up Pro Products radiant heat panels and give them a call. They will ask you all the relevant questions and recommend a panel wattage and size.

I personally use plastic cages that are very similar in size to the animal plastics T8 in conjunction with RHPs from Pro Products. They work well for me, however my ambient room temperature is a fair bit higher (~72 degrees F). I do not use heat tape with RHPs and I place the probe just below my heat panel. Radiant heat panels do indeed raise ambient temperatures, but the amount is highly variable. RHPs do not heat air, they heat objects within the cage. The objects then give off heat to the environment. The amount the RHP raises the temperature thus depends on the objects within the cage and the cage itself. For example, mine raise the ambient from around 72 degrees F to around 79-80 degrees F. My panels are the P3 model and are (I believe) 65 watts.

I do not know if an RHP can raise the temperature from 65 without heating the panel to an unsafe level, but Bob at Pro Products should be able to answer that question.

[BR8080]

I spoke with Bob at Pro Products about this very thing as I live in Rochester, NY.

My room temps are in the 60's for both summer and winter and I'm going with the Animal Plastics T10 (with divider) He recommended a 40W panel for each side. When the snake grows and I remove the divider (something I still don't understand, snakes have the whole world to live in but in captivity they need a smaller space) he recommends getting a single 80W panel.

As for the thermometer probe placement I've read on a thread somewhere in our forum that's something you'll have to adjust what works for your enclosure. Bob recommended starting with it just above the substrate on the "cool" side.

If I'm not mistaken other members with PVC enclosures have a similar set up without a UTH.

[Sauzo]

Are you partitioning the T10 for 2 snakes? Or just 1 snake? If for 1 snake, don't waste the cash for a divider and 2 RHPs. Just use the whole cage and clutter it up. Put in 3 or 4 hides, some silk vines, a few paper towel tubes or a cereal box.

As for probe set up, I have one pvc cage running a Pro Products 65w RHP. It really depends on the room temp for set up. Since your room is so cold, I would go with the probe on the cool side and then set the cool side to 80F with the Herpstat. For me, my house is kept around 75-80F so I had to set the probe on the hot side and then dial the t-stat temp in with a IR gun. The problem for me is my house being so warm, the RHP would pretty much never come on if I set the cool side to 78-80F. For you, it should work great as it will come on a lot more to keep that cool side 80F so it will create a nice hot spot under it. That is why I tell people, if you have a warm room, go with heat tape. Cold room, go with a RHP. All my AP cages are run off flexwatt which gives me a permanent 90F hot spot while still providing a nice cool 77-79F cool side.

Generally you don't need to run heat tape and RHP unless your house is REALLY cold. Not sure if Bob told you but you should put a 1/2" sheet of plywood between the cage and the table to provide insulation as a cold table will sap heat from the floor of the cage.

And as for probe height, I set mine just above the snakes height so they cant sit on the probe. Also if they happen to brush against it, it will just fall back to the same spot.

Also if you are using the AP stand, again put a sheet of plywood between the stand and the cage. I took a 1/2" sheet of sanded plywood and spray painted it flat black to match the cages and stand. Here is what it looks like. You cant even see the plywood unless you are looking for it. Kind of missed the stand lol but you can still it in the right bottom corner there.


The white 4x2 cage on the left side is the one with the RHP only in it. If I was planning on using it permanently, I would probably switch it to flexwatt as well. But it will end up either being sold or being used as a spare cage when I need to reseal an AP cage.

[BR8080]

I don't want to hijack Albino's thread so I'll PM you. LOL

[BPGator]

I have two T8 cages both with an 88 W pro products RHP. My room is currently 65-67F. The RHP is the only heat source (no UTH). I use Herpstats with the probe on the cool side, about mid level. I've tried using the probe on the hot side as well as lower to the ground, but was not happy with the results.


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[L.West]

I'm confused. I always thought you had to have the probe under where the RHP is at. I have mine tacked down to the floor of my cage directly below the RHP. Seems like, if I had it on the cool side that the hot side would get way too hot. I just never even heard of putting the probe away from the actual heat source.

[OhhWatALoser]

You put the probe above where the snake can screw with it, on the floor or just above the substrate is a bad idea. A spilled water bowl or even the snake laying on it could be the end.

I would try to keep it at least a couple inches away from the rhp so your not picking up the physical panels heat, just the radiant heat.

[Coluber42]

I have a custom PVC cage in a room that can get as low as 55 degrees, and I use an 80-watt RBI panel on the cool side, with a UTH to make a hot spot. The hot spot is on the side without the RHP, with my logic being that in addition to the higher surface temperature, it helps keep the corners from getting quite as cold. I designed a bunch of features of my cage around retaining heat as well as possible, and it is a non-standard size, but in general it is in the same ballpark size-wise as some of the others mentioned in this thread.

The big thing to remember about heating cages in a cold room though is INSULATION, even for PVC. If your RHP is mounted to the ceiling of the cage, a lot of heat is going to be lost through the roof. So especially insulate the top of the cage really well. Also place the entire cage on top of a piece of foam insulation, plywood, etc, especially if you have a UTH underneath. Again, if your cage is sitting on a stand that conducts heat well, such as a metal shelf, more of the heat from your UTH will be escaping into the stand and the room than going into the cage. And adding some amount of insulation to the back and sides doesn't hurt either. It doesn't have to be ugly; I made some insulating panels for mine that look sort of quilt-ish and match the decor in the rest of the room.
And when we're going to be away and the heat is going to be on the "vacation" setting, I put a blanket over the front to cover the sliding doors too. The RHP can still maintain good temps without that, but it helps keep it from having to run quite as high.

[BPGator]

I'm confused. I always thought you had to have the probe under where the RHP is at. I have mine tacked down to the floor of my cage directly below the RHP. Seems like, if I had it on the cool side that the hot side would get way too hot. I just never even heard of putting the probe away from the actual heat source.

I have the temperature set to around 80F. It takes some dinkering, but your thermostat target temp is whatever it needs to be so the hot side is at an appropriate temp.

But as the post after yours states, your probe should never be where your snake can mess with it.


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