So, what would you call this funky morph combo? Paradox super black? Paradox panda?

[wendhend]

Someone just posted on Kingsnake a 'False Panda Pied' that looks like this without the brown markings, his is a known super cinnamon het pied from a male that throws het pied supers with extreme ringers just like this.

Thanks for that tip! Yeah, those ones for sale on Kingnake do look a lot like mine with all the white underneath. I had never heard of "false" pandas. I imagine the same could happen with black pastel lines..... So, then my bizarre snake here must be a paradox super black pastel het pied ringer? Does that sound about right?

[Albert Clark]

The bug eyes aren't a normal problem. I think this particular snake's bug eyes are a result of the paradox; depending on what causes the paradox. I wouldn't call this snake a pied either considering super black pastel pieds tend to be very very high white which is what makes the panda pied to elusive. From what I understand, it's a gamble when it comes to the super cinnamons/super black pastels/8 balls in that the super form is either hit or miss. Apparently the kinking is somewhat relatively rare but still entirely possible. I've seen those clutches go around 60/40 with 60% being no kinking. There are, I think, 2-3 super cinnamon/super black pastel/8 ball clutches this year on youtube but they were all parthenogenesis clutches which usually results in deformities anyway.

With the 8 ball clutches, did they confirm that the parthenogenisis factor was indeed the case? Did they consider that the clutches could be from retained sperm? Which could still, of course end in deformities?

[wendhend]

The bug eyes aren't a normal problem. I think this particular snake's bug eyes are a result of the paradox; depending on what causes the paradox.

So, are you saying that there is a known link between paradox and bug eyes? Just curious, because the only other bug-eyed ball python besides this one that I have ever hatched was also a paradox.... and also a super morph (super lesser). I would be curious to know if there is some kind of known connection between paradox and bug eyes (or any other defects)?

[Seven-Thirty]

With the 8 ball clutches, did they confirm that the parthenogenisis factor was indeed the case? Did they consider that the clutches could be from retained sperm? Which could still, of course end in deformities?

Yeah, one was balls2u which was a virgin girl and the other was.... I think memphis reptiles who had a half parthenogenesis clutch and half single sired. I forgot what he last one was but retained sperm was not possible according to them.

So, are you saying that there is a known link between paradox and bug eyes? Just curious, because the only other bug-eyed ball python besides this one that I have ever hatched was also a paradox.... and also a super morph (super lesser). I would be curious to know if there is some kind of known connection between paradox and bug eyes (or any other defects)?

There isn't a confirmed link but it depends on what the cause of the paradox is. One cause of paradoxing, and from what I understand to be the most common, is something called allelic dropout which can be described as something akin to a missing locus asfar as i understand. Regardless, it's considered a mutation and as such, anything could happen. I'm not saying that it's entirely linked to the paradoxing but it could be or it could just be a random occurance.

[wendhend]

[QUOTE
There isn't a confirmed link but it depends on what the cause of the paradox is. One cause of paradoxing, and from what I understand to be the most common, is something called allelic dropout which can be described as something akin to a missing locus asfar as i understand. Regardless, it's considered a mutation and as such, anything could happen. I'm not saying that it's entirely linked to the paradoxing but it could be or it could just be a random occurance.[/QUOTE]

Good to know! I will have to read up more on allelic dropout. Thank you!

[Ax01]

that is a very interesting BP. what are your plans for him?


Edit: also are u vending at the Seattle show next weekend?

Someone just posted on Kingsnake a 'False Panda Pied' that looks like this without the brown markings, his is a known super cinnamon het pied from a male that throws het pied supers with extreme ringers just like this.

aawww looks like i missed it. ):

[wendhend]

that is a very interesting BP. what are your plans for him?


Edit: also are u vending at the Seattle show next weekend?




aawww looks like i missed it. ):

No, I only vend at the Oregon shows. Regarding, this ball python, for now I just plan to keep him as a unique pet. I don't have any plans to breed him but will be curious to see if his father sires any other "false panda" types in future clutches.

[Trisnake]

Part of me is hesitant to even call him a paradox... I personally think he's a regular super black pastel het pied with an extreme ringer. And I say het pied because, as others have mentioned, most pieds with any 8ball gene tend to be very very high white. It would be astronomically rare (and maybe even impossible) to produce such an extremely low white super black pastel pied. If one copy of the black pastel gene is enough to make most black pastel pieds cappy, I'd assume two doses of it would reinforce that tendency.

The reason why I don't think its a paradox is because, at least in my experience trolling around YouTube, lurking on forums, and going to shows, I've seen quite a few super black pastels/8balls/super cinnemons (and combos) with this kind of weird discolored patching on their bodies. Just go on WOBP and browse through super cinnamon and its combos, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I think it has something to do with the animal's cells struggling to produce uniform pigment when working with two copies of the black pastel/cinnemon gene instead of one, especially if a color/pigment influencing gene like pied or pastel is involved. But that is speculation, I'm no geneticist and I've never produced super cinnis or super black pastels myself.