Problems with tub

[raisinjelly]

Hey guys! I'm going to be taking in a couple of rescue BPs to foster. Earlier last week I had been thinking I wanted to go with tub setups for convenience but I wasn't sure if that was viable outside of a heated reptile room. However, when I asked about that on a different forum I was assured by a group of different people that the UTH would easily bump up the ambient heat inside the cage. So I went ahead and bought all the supplies, and the tubs have now been up and running for two days (sans snakes) but well... there are indeed problems.

Setups - Both are hooked up to a Herpstat 2. The probes are sandwiched between the pad and bottom outside of the tub, and the pads are taped along the edges with heat resistent tape. Each tub has one line of airholes around the outside, spaced about an inch apart.
Larger tub: 44 L x 19 W x 6 T with 11x17' Ultratherm pad fit length-wise.
Smaller tub: 21 L x 15 W x 6 T with 6x11' Ultratherm pad fit width-wise.

As for the problems, well for one the temps inside of each tub are not being affected by the UTH like I was led to believe. Like, at all. It's a tad bit warmer an inch or so away from the pad but the rest of the tub is straight up room temperature, which is 71-73F. Was I seriously given wrong information by no less than 5 different people? I specifically asked if a tub setup could be used outside of a specially heated room and mentioned that I was under the impression that UTH's did not effect anything but the surface temp right above them, but was told that wasn't the case. Well...apparently I was right after all, or am I doing something wrong?

Secondly, the heating pads themselves have very inconsistent temps over the heated surface. Even the little 6x11' one could be like 81 degrees in one patch, 90 degrees an inch or two away, and 93 degrees in the diagonal corner. That's a range of up to 12 degrees over a 6'11 inch surface! The larger one is worse.

The humidity is doing good (a little too good actually) in the smaller cage but not quite up to scratch in the larger cage, and I have a very large bowl in there. I've tried moving it closer to the heating pad already but it doesn't seem to have much effect, maybe due to the low temps?

As a bonus suck, neither of the two Acu-rite temp/humidity gauges I spent $18 on each is at all accurate. One probe that I have set on the hot spot is reading 78 degrees, but measuring in the same spot with a heat gun says it's 90 degrees. That's 12 degrees off. :/

Just...ugh. What do? I'm so frustrated

[PitOnTheProwl]

A regulated UTH will raise ambient temperatures a little IF the room is not too cold, other than that it is just from a hot spot.

[raisinjelly]

That's what I had originally thought, but these were the responses I was getting:

"The heat tape or mat will heat the air as well, when you get the tubs only put a couple holes in them to start, that will help keep humidity and heat in, then make more holes if necessary. We got a couple of[...]
and they are great, they are so sealed that keeping heat and humidity in there really easy, and with the four latches they are very secure."

"Heat stays in tubs really easily, in my experience. Bigger, taller tubs will need additional helps, but ball python tubs seem to heat up fine with just a UTH+thermostat."

"[...]If your ambient room temp is around 70F and your humidity closer to 25-30 you should have no problems."

"my BPs all have ambient temperatures 7-10 degrees warmer than my room temperature in their pvc cages and sterilite tub, each heated only by a single UTH set to 90F. while a UTH is not designed to provide ambient heat, it will provide some, and the plastic enclosure will retain it."

Which is why I ended up going with the tubs. Now I'm due to get the snakes in a couple days and not sure what to do. I have a spare 10 gallon tank and heat lamp I could use for the juvenile, but then the humidity is going to go to crap, and I have nothing else to put the adult in larger then a 20 gal. Either way it's still better then their current situation, but still

[Albert Clark]

Well first of all don't get frustrated, get busy! The main thing you have to realize is that you will have to continuously tweak your enclosures for accuracy and proper functioning. The humidity is easy bc in tubs it will generally run higher so just add more holes to the tub. If it gets too low then tweak your substrate and add a bit more or mist or both. The ultra therm mats function in a way that the heat waves are generated to almost pulsating type of distribution. So if you measure the mat at one point it will be different at another point. That is kind of a safety feature of the ultra therms for the reptile. If there is too much of a variance then that's when you have to tweak your thermostat. Stay in peace and not in pieces. Lol.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Yes, relax...... We will help you figure this out.
What are your room temperatures?
Can you put them in a warmer room? (close A/C vents of to room if you have to)
What tubs did you get and are the lids SECURE?

[raisinjelly]

Thank you for the responses, I appreciate it!

The average room temp is about 73 during the day and I lower it to 68 at night, but the bathroom can get to 77 if I keep the door shut. I'm not sure if I'd be able to fit the tubs in there and still be able to use it though, as it's very small. Other than that it's just a couple of closets and my room as far as the apartment goes. Both of the tubs are sterilites, I can't remember the quarts...measurements are given up top though. The lids will be secured down with some heavy duty binder clips

The only other option I can think of aside from glass tanks is to bump up the thermostat in my own room to 75 or so and leave it on 24/7, but the cost of heating at these apartments is ridiculous enough as it is and I've already spent a large amount of money on supplies for these snakes. Just not sure why tubs are apparently working fine for these people but I can't get them up there. They're actually even a degree or two *cooler* then the surrounding room temp

[cristacake]

Do you have the tubs on the floor? If you have anything other than carpet, the floor may be leeching a lot of the heat away. That's just a guess though.

[Coluber42]

For that matter, have you tried wrapping any kind of insulation around the tubs? Styrofoam is great at retaining heat. If insulating a tank works, why not a tub?

You could also try an additional heat mat or UTH mounted to the side. It should still be regulated obviously, but a dimmer should be fine for starters. It won't get as hot as on the bottom because it won't have substrate over it to keep heat in, and the snake can't just sit on it and insulate it with its body and get it up to dangerous temps.

You could also try heat lamps pointed at the lids or sides. This is very crude, but even a normal incandescent bulb will make a fair amount of heat and if the lid is opaque and the sides are covered, it should just warm things up without the light bothering the snake. So you could point a lamp directly at the lid and get some heat that way. A CHE is probably better though.

You probably don't want to spend the money at this point, but I use a RHP on my 20L to get the temps up and it works great even though the room temp gets down to 55 degrees in the winter (during the day when no one's home and overnight when we're under the covers). It does always seem to me that a lot of the advice for heating snake cages is great for people whose houses are 15 degrees warmer than mine! Yes, I could also raise the thermostat... but heating the entire house (or even just the entire room via a 1,000+ watt space heater) because two or three cubic feet of it need to be warmer does not strike me as efficient!

[distaff]

For that matter, have you tried wrapping any kind of insulation around the tubs? Styrofoam is great at retaining heat. If insulating a tank works, why not a tub?

You could also try an additional heat mat or UTH mounted to the side. It should still be regulated obviously, but a dimmer should be fine for starters. It won't get as hot as on the bottom because it won't have substrate over it to keep heat in, and the snake can't just sit on it and insulate it with its body and get it up to dangerous temps.

You could also try heat lamps pointed at the lids or sides. This is very crude, but even a normal incandescent bulb will make a fair amount of heat and if the lid is opaque and the sides are covered, it should just warm things up without the light bothering the snake. So you could point a lamp directly at the lid and get some heat that way. A CHE is probably better though.

You probably don't want to spend the money at this point, but I use a RHP on my 20L to get the temps up and it works great even though the room temp gets down to 55 degrees in the winter (during the day when no one's home and overnight when we're under the covers). It does always seem to me that a lot of the advice for heating snake cages is great for people whose houses are 15 degrees warmer than mine! Yes, I could also raise the thermostat... but heating the entire house (or even just the entire room via a 1,000+ watt space heater) because two or three cubic feet of it need to be warmer does not strike me as efficient!

This^, that part in Bold.
Regret to hear about the Accurite having problems. I thought that was one of the better brands, and I was going to replace ALL mine (useless junk!!) with those.
Guess I'll be looking elsewhere.

Hang in there, it gets easier - sort of.

[distaff]

Also, if it helps, we are having essentially this same discussion (rant) right now, over at Cornsnakes.com (Husbandry section). Not trying to send the OP over there permanently (it is specific to cornsnakes, after all), but something helpful might be gleaned in that thread. Turns out, e-bay might be a good source for cheap and dependable probe thermometers.