Butter vs Lesser and Mojave vs Mystic

[SmoothScales]

I need a bit of commiseration here, mostly because I feel as though I've beat my head against a brick wall for a bit.

I was visiting a local pet store - a mom and pop place - where the owner does 'some' of his own breeding. Someone brought in a Butter while I was there, which led to a discussion on morph recognition. He claimed to be able to tell the difference between a Butter and a Lesser, stating that Lessers have an outline on their side patterning, while a Butter looks more washed out and lacks the outline. I tried to explain to him they are the same gene...but after 30 minutes of this discussion, he still maintains he can tell the difference. Then tells me that the real snakes that you can't tell apart are Mojave and Mystics.

...

He's being completely serious this whole time.

So I may have mentioned he smokes crack, which got him all uppity and he pulls out three snakes and tells me to pick the Mystics and Mojaves out. Which I do, despite the fact that these animals are no where near what I would consider a good example of their morphs. They're all muddy looking and I wouldn't want them in my collection, let alone use them as breeders.

Do others find people like this? That haven't researched or kept current on information but are convinced they are right and no amount of logic will change their minds? How do you deal with them?

[Lizardlicks]

There is always someone who is dead certain they know absolutely everything there is to know and are 110% experts. These are quite often the same keepers using decades outdated husbandry techniques, and are very fond of being very loud about how right they are.

[PitOnTheProwl]

You will find them if you look for them LoL
I have seen some Butters and Lessers that do look different but to me its more that the Lesser is a brighter yellow, nothing more.


I just spoke to someone that had some clowns/combos up for sale and a regular single gene male clown caught my eye.
I asked him if he would be interested in trading for a female BEL, Mojave/Lesser.....................
He asked me what a BEL was!!!!
I said thank you for your time and ended the conversation. SMH

[EDR]

All i'm gonna say is i laugh when people say stuff like het spider or het pastel.

[MarkS]

All i'm gonna say is i laugh when people say stuff like het spider or het pastel.

And it irritates the heck out of me when people don't realize that ALL spiders and ALL pastels ARE heterozygous. (unless it's a SUPER pastel in which case it's homozygous)

[StillBP]

saw today on kingsnake a visual albino that was listed as a albino 100% het albino which i suppose some people could consider it true but is not really true at the same time a recessive visual is a homozygous not heterozygous if my genetics are up to date

[Ax01]

So I may have mentioned he smokes crack, which got him all uppity and he pulls out three snakes and tells me to pick the Mystics and Mojaves out. Which I do, despite the fact that these animals are no where near what I would consider a good example of their morphs. They're all muddy looking and I wouldn't want them in my collection, let alone use them as breeders.

that's what i do. lol i just told the dude trying to sell my a Cinny as a Cinny Mystic combo to put down the pipe.

[OhhWatALoser]

And it irritates the heck out of me when people don't realize that ALL spiders and ALL pastels ARE heterozygous. (unless it's a SUPER pastel in which case it's homozygous)

lol yup just a couple days ago, I had someone email me about the scoria gene (unproven dominant morph in boas) he asked how I could possibly know that a scoria x scoria could yield homozygous scoria boas. well het x het = 25% chance for homo. he responded with he was not talking about albino gene, he was talking about scoria...

Id be willing to bet most people making these arguments don't know about the concept of polygenic traits and epigenetics, which makes it really hard to grasp the concept that the same gene can be expressed differently because of other genes or other factors besides the gene. I talked to someone who called me an idiot for saying banana and coral glow were the same gene and was surprised I couldn't see the differences between them. of course any animal that didn't fit his idea was "obviously mislabeled" Some people are just hard headed, there's no fixing it, just move on.

[SmoothScales]

that's what i do. lol i just told the dude trying to sell my a Cinny as a Cinny Mystic combo to put down the pipe.

Glad I'm not the only one! Really makes you wonder, though, do they plan anything out? Do some research so they have half a clue, or just toss 2 snakes together?

The shop owner is always complaining how his snakes never give him good sized clutches and they throw a lot of slugs...I'm sure he's cheaping out on the snakes' care, not taking care to make sure they're getting what they need to be healthy and stay that way. (He had a burm do a full slug out earlier this month - 54 sad little, nonviable eggs.)

The Butter I mentioned came in to get weighed - I don't know why someone can't afford a 20$ scale at Wal-Mart cares what their snake weighs - and came in at 1070. Snake's owner asked when she'd be ready to breed...and the shop owner said she was ready now. I'm sure a more experienced breeder that knew the snake and knew the snake was old enough to handle it could go ahead and pair her if they felt she was ready, but if you're having to ask then not only is she not ready, but you probably aren't either. I about had an aneurysm. My s.o. just gave me this look like 'No, don't do it', and he followed the dude out to the parking lot to impart better information.

I seriously should stop going to that shop. I always find something that gets my blood boiling. The sad thing is, I used to think it was a good place, until I started doing my own research and learning good practices from places like this forum.

[Hannahshissyfix]

You will find them if you look for them LoL
I have seen some Butters and Lessers that do look different but to me its more that the Lesser is a brighter yellow, nothing more.


I just spoke to someone that had some clowns/combos up for sale and a regular single gene male clown caught my eye.
I asked him if he would be interested in trading for a female BEL, Mojave/Lesser.....................
He asked me what a BEL was!!!!
I said thank you for your time and ended the conversation. SMH

Hey you could have come out ahead in that deal if he looked and thought they all sell for the $600 people list them out compared to the 350 I always see them for at shows.