Baby Ball Python Erratic Eating

[jnmatthews9614]

I've had this baby normal since November 14th of 2015. When I got him he weighed just about 62 grams. He is now about 68 grams (so he's gaining weight, just not as much as I'd like). He's been a very inconsistent eater; eating on and off week by week. I first started him off of the pinkie mice (4 or 5 grams), just trying to get him to eat and he took one 3 days after we got him which I was glad. Unfortunately my luck has not been so good since. I moved up to small mice (about 12 grams) and he seems to dislike those and kind of looks scared of them. He seems to go anywhere from 1 to 2 weeks without eating and then ferociously takes a meal, then repeats. I want to try to have him feel comfortable with the small mice but he seems to take the pinkie mice easier? It's hard to tell since I haven't had him all that long. I've been feeding him frozen and thawed.

Set-Up:



Starting from the left side

I have a small rock hide and a water bowl. On the wall I have a thermometer to measure the hot side ambient. In the middle I have the climbing thingy. On the right I have the larger rock hide (I won in a expo raffle) for the cool side. On that side of the wall I have a hydrometer/thermometer combo. All on top of paper towel as the substrate. The lid is have plastic (the right side), and half metal mesh (on the left side). I have paper towels to keep humidity in and a heating lamp. Under the tank I have a UTH and the probe for that is on the INSIDE of the tank, between the paper towel and glass bottom. The water bowl is covering the probe a bit because the heat lamp causes the probe to read much hotter that it is. And the water bowl absorbs most of the heat lamp to provide more humidity. He seems to utilize both sides of the heat gradient so I don't think the temperatures are off but I may be wrong.

The UTH probe is consistently around 86ish, the hot side thermometer reads about the same, and the cool side thermomter reads about 10 degrees less. The humidity ranges between 45% and 65% depending on when I spray.

Thanks for any help!

[ItsAllNew2Me!]

Hi. Glad to hear you have a new one your taking care of. It is really fun to get in this hobby. Looks like you are off to a good start but lets get a few things corrected. First do you have a thermostat to regulate the uth? that is very important as the uth can get very hot and burn your snake if it is uncontrolled. You can get a cheap one if you need off amazon for around $30 (hydrofarm). If you know anything about wiring you can try a stc-1000 off of ebay (i use this) which is around $10. Next you want to take the uth thermometer probe out of the tank and put it between the uth and the bottom of the glass:

Uth----> probe----->bottom tank not uth---->bottom tank---->probe

You want it this way because if water is spilled on it, the snake urinates on it or it gets moved your temp will be way off...you also want the tstat probe there too. For the hotspot you are going to want to bump that up to 88-90 which may be the reason that he is not feeding so well. 45% is a bit low for humidity so you might want to add some moss or cover the screen lid with plastic or foil (not the whole thing you need to get some airflow through)

Also for the heat lamp, is that an actual heat bulb or a daylight bulb? The daylight bulbs don't typically give off enough heat for the enclosure so replacing that with a CHE or actual heat bulb will help boost that ambient temp.

Another thing to consider is that tank you have for that size animal is huge! You will need to clutter it up more to give him more privacy. I would black out most of the tank (three sides) with some Black or dark colored paper to make is seem smaller. Also add hides and\or some fake plants and things to clutter it.
In the end you may end up having to get him something smaller till he grows a bit more. They really like small spaces. I have all mine started in 15qt tubs a few of them are pushing 500g in these with plenty of room.

The other thing is that you may just have a temperamental snake who is really picky about feeding. If that is the case there is nothing you can do but keep offering or trying to find another rodent he may like to eat. Maybe he will like rats better, its worth a shot.

Try these minute changes to your husbandry and see if he gets better. If not then hey thats just how he is. Good luck!! Please feel free to ask questions.

[jnmatthews9614]

Hi. Glad to hear you have a new one your taking care of. It is really fun to get in this hobby. Looks like you are off to a good start but lets get a few things corrected. First do you have a thermostat to regulate the uth? that is very important as the uth can get very hot and burn your snake if it is uncontrolled. You can get a cheap one if you need off amazon for around $30 (hydrofarm). If you know anything about wiring you can try a stc-1000 off of ebay (i use this) which is around $10. Next you want to take the uth thermometer probe out of the tank and put it between the uth and the bottom of the glass:

Uth----> probe----->bottom tank not uth---->bottom tank---->probe

You want it this way because if water is spilled on it, the snake urinates on it or it gets moved your temp will be way off...you also want the tstat probe there too. For the hotspot you are going to want to bump that up to 88-90 which may be the reason that he is not feeding so well. 45% is a bit low for humidity so you might want to add some moss or cover the screen lid with plastic or foil (not the whole thing you need to get some airflow through)

Also for the heat lamp, is that an actual heat bulb or a daylight bulb? The daylight bulbs don't typically give off enough heat for the enclosure so replacing that with a CHE or actual heat bulb will help boost that ambient temp.

Another thing to consider is that tank you have for that size animal is huge! You will need to clutter it up more to give him more privacy. I would black out most of the tank (three sides) with some Black or dark colored paper to make is seem smaller. Also add hides and\or some fake plants and things to clutter it.
In the end you may end up having to get him something smaller till he grows a bit more. They really like small spaces. I have all mine started in 15qt tubs a few of them are pushing 500g in these with plenty of room.

The other thing is that you may just have a temperamental snake who is really picky about feeding. If that is the case there is nothing you can do but keep offering or trying to find another rodent he may like to eat. Maybe he will like rats better, its worth a shot.

Try these minute changes to your husbandry and see if he gets better. If not then hey thats just how he is. Good luck!! Please feel free to ask questions.

Thanks for the reply! To answer some of your questions:

1) I do have the hydrofarm set at 86 to give some leeway so it doesn't get too hot; I have it set to 86 degrees.
2) I learned to put the probe between the glass and the UTH after I applied the UTH. But I'm afraid to tear it off since on the packaging it says don't take it off since it can damage the wiring and the adhesive might not work as well after.
3) Just to clear something up, I only have 1 probe and thats for the thermostat. My thermometers I have are the ones that stick on the wall.
5) I had moss in there along with proper bedding but he had mites so we just have him on paper towels for the mean time. The humidity usually stays above 50, especially now since it's raining in Southern California, where I live.
6) I've been meaning to get him a ceramic bulb, just haven't gotten it yet.
6) I've heard about putting shredded newspaper in there to make him feel more comfortable, so I was planning on trying that along with maybe covering up the sides to make him more comfortable.
7) I've also thought about getting the T8 from animal plastics with a divider to make it smaller for him.
8) It is the ZooMed Moonlite Reptile Bulb, 100w. (http://www.amazon.com/Med-Aquatrol-Z...e+reptile+bulb)
9) I'm thinking it might just be his personality but I will try some of the things you recommended and see if it gets better.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Gaining 6 grams in a month and a half is not what I would call gaining weight.

Here is something that has been proven to work

Get a 6 quarts tub, use aspen bedding, use a 6 inches flower pot saucer as an hide, provide a hot spot of 86 degrees.

Once you made the switch wait a week and offer a live hopper mouse in the tub once a week.

No handling until the animal eats with consistency.

Keep the animal in that tub setup until it reached 150/200 grams

At this age and size the animal should be voracious and right now it is not and at this size it could go down the hill very fast.

The main issue I see here is the lack of security which is THE most important thing for an hatchling that size (this is the average hatching weight out of the egg). Some do not do well in class enclosure especially that big even if cluttered up, making changes to addressed the security issue will be one step in the right direction feeding the appropriate size prey will be the second step fuzzies are in no way suitable.

[jnmatthews9614]

Gaining 6 grams in a month and a half is not what I would call gaining weight.

Here is something that has been proven to work

Get a 6 quarts tub, use aspen bedding, use a 6 inches flower pot saucer as an hide, provide a hot spot of 86 degrees.

Once you made the switch wait a week and offer a live hopper mouse in the tub once a week.

No handling until the animal eats with consistency.

Keep the animal in that tub setup until it reached 150/200 grams

At this age and size the animal should be voracious and right now it is not and at this size it could go down the hill very fast.

The main issue I see here is the lack of security which is THE most important thing for an hatchling that size (this is the average hatching weight out of the egg). Some do not do well in class enclosure especially that big even if cluttered up, making changes to addressed the security issue will be one step in the right direction feeding the appropriate size prey will be the second step fuzzies are in no way suitable.

What is the most suitable prey? I thought it was 10-15% of body weight, or about as big as the largest part of the snakes body. Which the 12 gram mice are perfect for both of those criteria.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

What is the most suitable prey? I thought it was 10-15% of body weight, or about as big as the largest part of the snakes body. Which the 12 gram mice are perfect for both of those criteria.

Suitable prey is something equal the girth size of your BP (widest part of your BP's body)

[jnmatthews9614]

Suitable prey is something equal the girth size of your BP (widest part of your BP's body)

The mice that I buy from the petsmart is almost exactly the widest part of my ball python. I've even measured with a measuring tape.

[jnmatthews9614]

Suitable prey is something equal the girth size of your BP (widest part of your BP's body)

Mine are closer to the small mice on this website (https://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-mice)

[jnmatthews9614]

Gaining 6 grams in a month and a half is not what I would call gaining weight.

Here is something that has been proven to work

Get a 6 quarts tub, use aspen bedding, use a 6 inches flower pot saucer as an hide, provide a hot spot of 86 degrees.

Once you made the switch wait a week and offer a live hopper mouse in the tub once a week.

No handling until the animal eats with consistency.

Keep the animal in that tub setup until it reached 150/200 grams

At this age and size the animal should be voracious and right now it is not and at this size it could go down the hill very fast.

The main issue I see here is the lack of security which is THE most important thing for an hatchling that size (this is the average hatching weight out of the egg). Some do not do well in class enclosure especially that big even if cluttered up, making changes to addressed the security issue will be one step in the right direction feeding the appropriate size prey will be the second step fuzzies are in no way suitable.

I was wondering if you could take a look at my new set up for the baby snake. I know it's not a tub and trust me, I tried to convince my girlfriend to keeping him in a tub but she thinks they're "ugly". So anyway, this is the new setup.



It's a 5 gallon tank, two small hides, one water bowl in the middle all on top of cypress mulch. The heating comes from a UTH on the bottom (I taped the probe onto the UTH on the non-sticky side since I wanted to be able to take the probe off without ruining the UTH), and a lamp on top. I also keep that rag on top to keep humidity in. Tomorrow I get my temp gun so I'm not positive the temps are right but I'm more concerned with if you think this size of tank, and hide, is appropriate. Thanks for the help again!