Personal protection dog?

[Daigga]

So my husband and I are expecting our first child here near the end of the month which has gotten me thinking lately about home security and ways of keeping our family safe. To be perfectly honest, I'm just really uncomfortable with the idea of mixing guns and infants at this point and the more I consider it the more I would prefer a well trained dog. I've owned protective dogs before, but never an actual personal protection dog, so I have lots of questions about if this is a valid option for our lifestyle or not.

First thing is that we live in an apartment at the moment. I'd like to make a move into a house, but the earliest that could happen would be July of this year and there's no guarantee that it will happen then at all, so it may be apartment living for a good deal into the future. Second is that we have a dog right now already and he is definitely a permanent fixture in our lives. Odin is a sheltie border collie mix who likes to bark and is crazy smart, but he's no guard dog and I really doubt anything can change that. He gets along great with other dogs, kids, cats, and everything else, but should I expect problems with adding a personal protection dog into the house? I had honestly considered another dog anyway just so Odin could have a playmate whike my husband and I were occupied with our newborn (he's the spoiled rotten center of attention at this point). With my current dog, a newborn on the way, and apartment living, is a personal protection dog a good choice for me?

If so, what would I be looking for? I'm not picky about breed and wouldn't mind a mix. Should I just keep an eye on what the local shelters have up for adoption, or should I be looking into breeders? What about age? Do I absolutely want a puppy to raise up with a close attachment to my newborn and my family, or would I be just fine getting something around a year or two old, because I would love to skip the potty training/teething stage! Are there certain personality aspects I should be keeping an eye out for, and what would those look like on an untrained dog? Lastly, what can I expect a good trainer to charge? If I pursue this price wouldn't be a deciding factor, but I would still like to know about what to expect.

Any advice is appreciated!

[Mephibosheth1]

Greetings!

While I'm far from a Dog Training Expert, The main things I would encourage you to consider are breed characteristics and time you can spend with the dog.

From my experience in the veterinary field, many breeds that are synonymous with protection are large and require proper attention to ensure that they bond properly with their owner and that they are safe around other dogs/people. Rottweilers, Dobermans, and Alsatians make amazing guard dogs, and (in spite of what some people say to the contrary) can be raised to interact well with children and other dogs. The main key is the time spent with them as a puppy (until they're around 6 months of age). Almost all of the bad behavior that people complain about with their dogs (barking, whining, inability to interact with other dogs/new people) can be traced to improper socialization at a young age.

In addition, dogs do not automatically respect you just because you purchase them; you must demonstrate to the dog that you are the boss. The amount of time you are able to spend with your dog and the attitude you show towards it will determine if they feel you are in charge or not. I have personally seen a lot of success with Cesar Milan's style of dog training; the clients who implemented his non-aggressive but firm style of training always had dogs that would listen to them and were comfortable with other people that their owners were comfortable with.

Breed characteristics will also influence the choice; being in an apartment will make it more difficult to select a dog that can adequately protect your family. Great Danes are good apartment dogs (believe it or not) and are good with families. I would be cautious about cattle/herding dogs (they can be nippy with kids) and Golden Retrievers (number one culprit for dog bites in children). I'd talk with your veterinarian to see if they know some good dog trainers in the area, and then talk with them about your concerns and situations.

TL;DR–most dogs can be good guard dogs; picking a good trainer and taking time to help the dog bond with your family are the keys to success.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.

[KMG]

This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.

There are many good points here. Nicely said.

A true defense animal is not cheap as they take many hours of training and are breed for the job making them a heavy investment. To me it sounds like you have just the dog you need. Basically your current dog is an alarm system that can alert you to an intruder and allow you needed time to arm yourself and respond properly.

Im second gen LEO with many LEOs in my family. All have or had kids during their career and all owned guns safely. A gun can be secured and made safe from kids while still being accessible to you, especially now days with the personal safes that are available. I survived childhood without any fancy safe and was taught early that the guns in the house were not toys and were to be left alone. It would honestly be far cheaper for you to buy a quality handgun, safe, and bullets over a trained guard dog.

While I do agree with part of the above in regards to alarms I personally have one and endorse them. You can get them cheap to fit your personal needs. I like that my home is monitored while Im away as I may not always be able to check my phone when it is triggered and then wait on hold to report the alarm to the police dispatch. I also like knowing that my wife has another level of alert, defense, and protection from an intruder. Many times a barking dog or blaring siren is enough. I also like that in a true home invasion if I or my wife was told to deactivate the alarm we have a secondary code that turns the alarm off while still sending the alert for police to respond.

Plus there are plenty of options that allow for easy installation of wireless alarms that can be packed up and taken with you on a move which is great for apartment living.

I vote that you keep your dog, get an alarm, buy a handgun, and take training classes with it.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

KMG, you are correct about the alarm system. In hindsight, I tried to edit my post to make it less harsh but time has expired. My wife and I are always able to monitor our cell phones so I mistakenly extrapolated that to others. Certainly a third person monitoring service would be beneficial to those who do not always have access to their cell phones.

[KMG]

From my knowledge and experience a guard dog should not be socialized outside of your family so I believe the dog park would not be a good idea.*



*However I'm not an expert.

[Timelugia]

From my knowledge and experience a guard dog should not be socialized outside of your family so I believe the dog park would not be a good idea.*



*However I'm not an expert.

Having worked at a dog train facility I'm going to interject here. If you don't socialize your dog outside of the family it will likely become aggressive to strangers. This may sound like a good thing until you consider that you need to be able to walk this dog, take this dog to vets and groomers, and you need to be able to let appliance workers and friends into your house. If you do not properly socialize the dog you will not be able to control the dog around strangers. This would be putting your family at risk for being sued when the dog mauls your neighbor's kid. It is also unfair to the dog, since it will likely end up being put down. For a guard dog you want a dog that is well-trained, so the more socialization and experience it has the better.

[KMG]

Having worked at a dog train facility I'm going to interject here. If you don't socialize your dog outside of the family it will likely become aggressive to strangers. This may sound like a good thing until you consider that you need to be able to walk this dog, take this dog to vets and groomers, and you need to be able to let appliance workers and friends into your house. If you do not properly socialize the dog you will not be able to control the dog around strangers. This would be putting your family at risk for being sued when the dog mauls your neighbor's kid. It is also unfair to the dog, since it will likely end up being put down. For a guard dog you want a dog that is well-trained, so the more socialization and experience it has the better.

Perhaps "overly socialized" would have been better word usage.

Socialization and training are two different things. My dogs do not like strangers and that is how I like it. Yet, I can take them on walks (off leash) and have complete control, because of training. I can take them anywhere without issue and they have never been to a dog park. That is because of training. I can also take them to the vet and they never give them any issues, which is again training. They are also always the best behaved dogs there. There is socialization that goes into this but it is learned by training them from early on.

My friends come in without issue and my dogs are friendly because I am. I do tell everybody that comes over to ignore my dogs until they come to them. This allows them time to read the person and me and decide how to act. My breeds are known for being stand offish so this puts them at ease.

I have never had an issue with a service person entering my home either. I can leave them out but usually choose to put them outside or in their crate, which is done by a simple command, training again. I don't do this for the person's safety. I do it because I don't want them to be friends with a person I don't trust, I don't want them socialized with them. Not overly socializing a dog will not make them aggressive, balanced socialization is what is needed. Having a dog that will lick a burglar is no good.

As a LEO I have been around a ton of bite dogs. They are not overly socialized and yet their handler is able to control them and take them to the vet as well... Again, because of training. You won't find them at a dog park.

As for the neighbor kid getting mauled. Why did this happen? The dog was irresponsibly left or let out? The kid jumped the fence? What? I can tell you right now my dogs would never do such a thing. They are not overly socialized but the are socialized. But more importantly they are trained with a good balance of socialization. They are not killers, not aggressive, not let out to run loose. They are protective, loyal, trained, and responsibly owned. They are not wild street dogs.

Everywhere is different but down here it takes more than a single bite incident to destroy a dog. It may be taken but can usually always be returned. Overall, imho it is a larger liability taking an attack trained dog to a dog park. My dogs are not attack trained and I know I could take them to a dog park, Petco, or wherever without issue. I don't because they have a purpose to me and that is to be a reliable alarm system and family protector. I have no use for a dog that will allow their property intruded on and then show them where the silver is.

[Daigga]

This is a topic close to home so let me give you a good three prong approach.

Let's be clear up front about one thing. Unless you are armed, you are at an extreme disadvantage. A protection dog is a great addition to, but never a replacement for, a firearm and training. To be blunt, if the intruder is armed and you are not, you're looking at a dead dog and dead family. A young mother in the Tennessee, with a newborn baby and wife of a local preacher, was recently shot dead during a home invasion at 8:30am on Tuesday morning in a good, "safe" neighborhood. A protection dog gives you the warning and time needed to reach for your own protection. They can scare other intruders off but never make the fatal mistake of relying on anyone but yourself for protecting your family. Owning a firearm will not put your infant in any danger. It will on the other hand allow you to protect yourself and your child.

It is a great idea to get a protection dog as a puppy and have it grow up with your child. Each of our children have received their own German Shepherd puppy within a week of being born. These dogs worship our children and are always looking out for them. We have also trained the dogs to locate and seek each child by name which can be very useful (think of it as hide and seek for training purposes). If someone is afraid of their dog being around their own infant then (a) the dog needs to be put down or b) the owner shouldn't own a dog or c) both a and b.)

We have 30 acres of pasture and woodlands so need very active dogs. For apartment living, I think a mastiff would be an excellent choice. They are large but do not require nearly the amount of space as some smaller more energetic dogs. Whichever protection dog you get, it needs to get from a breeder not the shelter, but it does not need to be AKC registered. If the breeder has kids, see how the parents do with the children. Get a puppy so you have full control over the temperament and training. The Monks of New Skeet have an excellent book on dog training.

The third prong is an alarm system, even though you are in an apartment. There is no need to spend thousands of dollars are on monitored alarm system. Personally, I think it's a little ridiculous people do this when you can do a better job yourself. For $200 or so, you buy your own DIY alarm system from a place like Fortress Security Store. It will send alarms directly to your cell phones so you can respond. You can also put up good quality IP cameras that you can view on your phones anywhere, anytime for $60. Since you rent, everything can be taken down easily and taken with you when you move.

I'm not adverse to owning a gun exactly, only I've always thought that in case of home invasion a gun is only useful if it's close and ready, which I just don't feel mixes well with infants or small children. If having a dog meant I could have a gun tucked away somewhere not accessible to my child I would probably be more comfortable doing so, if you understand my meaning? I wouldn't even mind having a firearm a little more on hand once my son is old enough to understand what that means. I think I just need some adjustment time.

I'm certainly not afraid of Odin being around the baby, more worried about him being destructive around home if he doesn't adjust well to not being the center of attention. We've gotten good at not leaving anything lying around to tempt him, but he's been known to chew the wall or poop on the carpet out of spite if nothing else is available. One of the reasons I would absolutely go with a professional for training purposes over doing the training myself. He's beautifully behaved at the dog park or as long as someone is home, but he's a proper butthead when he thinks he can get away with it. Which reminds me, do personal protection dogs do well at dog parks?

A security system is something I probably should have looked into before now and I'll certainly explore those options.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

I'm not adverse to owning a gun exactly, only I've always thought that in case of home invasion a gun is only useful if it's close and ready, which I just don't feel mixes well with infants or small children. If having a dog meant I could have a gun tucked away somewhere not accessible to my child I would probably be more comfortable doing so, if you understand my meaning? I wouldn't even mind having a firearm a little more on hand once my son is old enough to understand what that means. I think I just need some adjustment time.

I'm certainly not afraid of Odin being around the baby, more worried about him being destructive around home if he doesn't adjust well to not being the center of attention. We've gotten good at not leaving anything lying around to tempt him, but he's been known to chew the wall or poop on the carpet out of spite if nothing else is available. One of the reasons I would absolutely go with a professional for training purposes over doing the training myself. He's beautifully behaved at the dog park or as long as someone is home, but he's a proper butthead when he thinks he can get away with it. Which reminds me, do personal protection dogs do well at dog parks?

A security system is something I probably should have looked into before now and I'll certainly explore those options.

I understand and just being open to the idea is commendable. Not to drag this out so I'll just say you can certainly have a firearm on hand and it be 100% inaccessible to your child. Assuming you do not want to carry, drawer safes provide very quick access to yourself while preventing child access. Understand these will not prevent a determined thief (you need a heavy duty gun safe for that) but they will give rapid access to yourself. Here is a great one. Keep one in the bedroom and one in the living room and that will give you good accessibility.
http://www.amazon.com/STACK-ON-PDS-1...b_title_sports

Your dog sounds great and please don't think my abc comment about dogs and babies was directed at you. We heard prophecies of doom about our doberman and first child. I've also seen others' dogs harmed and even killed as a result of fear from new baby/dog mixing.

The new security systems are really great and can go beyond just security. You can also link a smoke detector to it which is priceless reassurance for any dog owner who isn't home.