Questions about grow out tubs

[bks2100]

I know this forum is pretty slow but I figured I'd just ask.

I was thinking about if I bred asf's how many tubs of everything I'd need. I have a handful of 10 gallons, so I'd most likely use a couple of those for breeding groups and then use larger tubs for grow outs. But at what age are asf usually fed off to adult bps? I know if you let them grow out for over a year they'll put on plenty of size, but that just seems silly to wait that long. Going by the size chart that's stickied here it seems like when they're 3 months old they're around 50g and according to the care sheet they're about 60-70g at 4 months old. I'd much rather feed off two 4 month olds than wait a year for one rat to get 100+g. So is that when people usually feed them off?

I'm asking all of this because it's hard for me to plan out how much space I really need for a couple trios. Some places make it sound like people are growing out asf for 7+ months and that just sounds like a LOT of grow outs to be taking care of.

If anyone else is breeding asf with a small collection I'd love to hear what you have for your asf. I'm at 4 snakes now but that will change once the girls can start breeding.

[blbsnakes]

I know this forum is pretty slow but I figured I'd just ask.

I was thinking about if I bred asf's how many tubs of everything I'd need. I have a handful of 10 gallons, so I'd most likely use a couple of those for breeding groups and then use larger tubs for grow outs. But at what age are asf usually fed off to adult bps? I know if you let them grow out for over a year they'll put on plenty of size, but that just seems silly to wait that long. Going by the size chart that's stickied here it seems like when they're 3 months old they're around 50g and according to the care sheet they're about 60-70g at 4 months old. I'd much rather feed off two 4 month olds than wait a year for one rat to get 100+g. So is that when people usually feed them off?

I'm asking all of this because it's hard for me to plan out how much space I really need for a couple trios. Some places make it sound like people are growing out asf for 7+ months and that just sounds like a LOT of grow outs to be taking care of.

If anyone else is breeding asf with a small collection I'd love to hear what you have for your asf. I'm at 4 snakes now but that will change once the girls can start breeding.

All of the reasons you stated plus the fact that some people can't get soft furs is why I raise rats for my ball pythons.

I do raise soft furs for my corns, hognoses, sand boas and king snakes.

Everybody has heard stories of ball pythons getting hooked on soft furs, but no one that I have come across is concerned that a corn or hognose or sand boa or king is not going to convert to mice or rats.

From my experience you are going to want to have at least 2 males per breeding group. My reasons are because soft furs take a relatively long time to mature to breeding size, they are pretty territorial and sometimes they accidentally pass away for whatever reason. So, this will inevitably lead to a situation in which you have ready and breedable females, whose mate has passed, that can't have a new male introduced to them without them attempting to seriously hurt each other. If you are lucky the females will have a litter that you can allow a male to grow from and become the breeder, but because they take a relatively long time to mature it can have a large impact on production.

I would actually recommend like 2 males and 8 females in the rat rack style concrete mixing tubs and using the 10 gallon tanks as the grow outs. Different soft fur groups can be mixed safely and without worry of harm as long as the soft furs are introduced in groups and on neutral ground(clean bedding) and they are under about 12-15 weeks old.

I always have a third male juvenile soft fur in each tub as well just in case I lose one of my breeders.

I have 4 groups of 2 males and 8 females. I make about 300 soft furs a month.

I have to plan at least 6 months ahead of time when retiring older groups as it takes that much time to properly introduce litters from different groups, to keep from to much inbreeding, and then allow them to grow to maturity and begin to produce regularly. All the while holding back enough to feed my own collection.

It's a lot of work but I actually like them more than rats. If I ever decide not to keep ball pythons, and I stay with smaller snakes, I will probably give up the rats all together and just raise soft furs.

[bks2100]

All of the reasons you stated plus the fact that some people can't get soft furs is why I raise rats for my ball pythons.

I do raise soft furs for my corns, hognoses, sand boas and king snakes.

Everybody has heard stories of ball pythons getting hooked on soft furs, but no one that I have come across is concerned that a corn or hognose or sand boa or king is not going to convert to mice or rats.

I'm mostly interested in asf because the live rats I've purchased have only lived about 30 minutes in tubs and they still make the place reek. Last one was a large weaned or small small rat and within 5 minutes I could smell it's urine in the whole room. Where as I've been to shows where they have like 30 weaned rats in a somewhat small tub and it didn't stink at all. Not to mention I live in FL and would want to breed them in my garage. I saw Mike Cavanaugh say that they live fine in his garage in Jacksonville, so I'd just need to set up some ventilation for them.

From my experience you are going to want to have at least 2 males per breeding group. My reasons are because soft furs take a relatively long time to mature to breeding size, they are pretty territorial and sometimes they accidentally pass away for whatever reason. So, this will inevitably lead to a situation in which you have ready and breedable females, whose mate has passed, that can't have a new male introduced to them without them attempting to seriously hurt each other. If you are lucky the females will have a litter that you can allow a male to grow from and become the breeder, but because they take a relatively long time to mature it can have a large impact on production.

I would actually recommend like 2 males and 8 females in the rat rack style concrete mixing tubs and using the 10 gallon tanks as the grow outs. Different soft fur groups can be mixed safely and without worry of harm as long as the soft furs are introduced in groups and on neutral ground(clean bedding) and they are under about 12-15 weeks old.

I think it was this forum that had an issue where someone got 1.3 and before they started breeding the male's face got puffy and he died unexpectedly. So I'd probably get the extra male to make sure I'd get some production. But isn't it only an issue to introduce new adults when there's litters? Assuming the male died before litters dropped of course. Having a growing male in the tubs at all times sounds like a great idea, maybe even one extra female just in case. I mean if you don't need her it's easy to feed it off or just retire one.

So do you feed off asf to any of your balls? I wish I had a shed or somewhere to breed rats though, I just can't take the smell inside the house and the garage is too hot and probably still not enough space for rats. The one other thing I liked about the asf is since I only have balls and don't know anyone with anything larger I could always feed off any retired breeders or anything. Where as I won't be able to feed off a large rat for at least a couple years.

[blbsnakes]

I'm mostly interested in asf because the live rats I've purchased have only lived about 30 minutes in tubs and they still make the place reek. Last one was a large weaned or small small rat and within 5 minutes I could smell it's urine in the whole room. Where as I've been to shows where they have like 30 weaned rats in a somewhat small tub and it didn't stink at all. Not to mention I live in FL and would want to breed them in my garage. I saw Mike Cavanaugh say that they live fine in his garage in Jacksonville, so I'd just need to set up some ventilation for them.



I think it was this forum that had an issue where someone got 1.3 and before they started breeding the male's face got puffy and he died unexpectedly. So I'd probably get the extra male to make sure I'd get some production. But isn't it only an issue to introduce new adults when there's litters? Assuming the male died before litters dropped of course. Having a growing male in the tubs at all times sounds like a great idea, maybe even one extra female just in case. I mean if you don't need her it's easy to feed it off or just retire one.

So do you feed off asf to any of your balls? I wish I had a shed or somewhere to breed rats though, I just can't take the smell inside the house and the garage is too hot and probably still not enough space for rats. The one other thing I liked about the asf is since I only have balls and don't know anyone with anything larger I could always feed off any retired breeders or anything. Where as I won't be able to feed off a large rat for at least a couple years.

I have both rats and soft furs in these racks which are simply covered by thin plastic that goes from ceiling to floor. Behind the racks is a small window exhaust fan. Before I did this the rats and soft furs stunk up my house. Since then I promise it is nearly impossible to smell the Rodents. Now I just lift the plastic get what I need or clean and feed and then put the plastic back down. It has literally brought the smell down to nothing.

It is very difficult to introduce adult soft furs at all. Whether there is a litter down or not. My best luck is introducing in groups on clean bedding when the soft furs are under 4 months old.

I am in the very southern tip of North Carolina, so its hot here in the summer and mild in the winter. Neither my rats or soft furs would survive the summer here if they had to live outside in these racks. They would roast. And even if they didn't die there is no way they would produce many young if at all. Maybe your ASFs are better acclimated, but I lost about a dozen breeders last summer when my a/c went out for 2 days in July when it was pushing 100.

I don't feed any balls soft furs. Even my hugest balls being in the 3000 gram range can barely eat a medium rat let alone a huge breeder. I usually sell them to a buddy who has boas and retics.

I totally think that soft furs are way better than rats. They smell less, breed more, take up less space and stay the size I need for longer, but at this point I have decided it is easier to raise a few rats so as to not alienate such a large portion of potential customers.

[jackiee]

I have 7 lucky reptile cages for breeding, I use 1 male to 4 females, I have a couple of rubs for growing on as I like to separate the males from the females. I feed my ball pythons on a 50g to 60g approx asf weekly and they put a lot of healthy weight on due to them not been as fatty as rats ( hence the smaller size ) you cannot add any adults to established breeding colonies, but you can add young to a different colony for whatever reason with no problem. I feed mouse food and wild bird seed, plus fruit and veg and any bread that's going spare. i wean the young between 24 to 28 days old as there is usually another 1 0r 2 litters on the ground, they are very prolific breeders 10 to 20 young per litter but this drops off to about 10 young on average, when the litter size start to drop off I sort another breeding colony out and put them in a 9l rub for a couple of weeks until I kill or retire the the old colony then transfer them to the larger cages. I have started feeding my green tree pythons asfs and they haven't missed a feed, so I'm quite happy, oh I should say ive been feeding my ball pythons asfs for about 3 to 4 years and they are growing and breeding very well. hope this helps.

[bks2100]

I have 7 lucky reptile cages for breeding, I use 1 male to 4 females, I have a couple of rubs for growing on as I like to separate the males from the females. I feed my ball pythons on a 50g to 60g approx asf weekly and they put a lot of healthy weight on due to them not been as fatty as rats ( hence the smaller size ) you cannot add any adults to established breeding colonies, but you can add young to a different colony for whatever reason with no problem. I feed mouse food and wild bird seed, plus fruit and veg and any bread that's going spare. i wean the young between 24 to 28 days old as there is usually another 1 0r 2 litters on the ground, they are very prolific breeders 10 to 20 young per litter but this drops off to about 10 young on average, when the litter size start to drop off I sort another breeding colony out and put them in a 9l rub for a couple of weeks until I kill or retire the the old colony then transfer them to the larger cages. I have started feeding my green tree pythons asfs and they haven't missed a feed, so I'm quite happy, oh I should say ive been feeding my ball pythons asfs for about 3 to 4 years and they are growing and breeding very well. hope this helps.

How many breeding groups do you have? And do you only have those 2 grow out tubs for all the breeders? How many of those 50-60g asf do you feed your adult females?

I was thinking this was something I'd be more interested in down the road when I start breeding, since I only have 4 balls now, but my best female I got online evidently changed her mind about f/t, but instantly took an asf. I think I want to breed asf just to have more control and buying frozen for 4 snakes is probably cheaper than breeding asf, but if I can't get this girl back onto f/t rats I might just have to raise asf. I guess the good part is that my biggest female is a pig and doesn't care what she's offered or how, so I still wouldn't have to breed many asf anyway.

I do like how you have a smaller tub for the new breeding groups. That just makes a whole lot of sense and I never thought of that.