Possible Hard Choice Concerning My BP

[CloudtheBoa]

This has been posted on another forum, and will be copy-pasted here to get more opinions. I basically want to know if other people feel he could still rebound and go back to normal if I just give him time and wait until I'm living somewhere at least semi-permanently or if I should give him up to an experience ball python owner. Over the past year or so, he has shown some improvement in his eating habits, but the fact he's losing more weight now than I've ever seen him lose in the past is the #1 reason why I'm considering re-homing him. It just seems that because he can't continue eating reliably that maybe it's taking a toll on his health. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GETTING HIM EATING AGAIN I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS SO FAR. Just in case people think I'm asking how to get him eating again, I've gotten him eating again after each strike, I am not worried about getting him to eat. I am more worried about the long-term negative health effects this many strikes are having on his body. That's it.

COPY-PAST POST BELOW:

My ball python's terrible feeding habits over the past 3 years has me coming to a decision that maybe rehoming him to someone who has steady living may be the best thing to do for him if I can't get him to eat regularly again. I've had him almost 9 years, got him September 23, 2006 as a baby. The first 5-6 years I had him, he ate reliably, winter or summer, but when I made my first move fall of 2013 that's when his bad feeding has started.

The majority of his strikes seem stress-related, each strike has began each time I've moved or changed his enclosure, and once when he escaped his tub. The other two were when I was changing his food source. His longest fast was 8 months long, and shortest was 2 months.

I have feeding records of him since May 2013, and there's only 18 months where he's eaten at least once a month (he gets fed biweekly). Before I began my records, he'd been through 1-2 fasts as well and had lost a noticeable amount of weight. His current fast has been 97 days long, and he's lost at least 10% of his weight. All his other fasts he lost less than 10% of his weight after a 6-8 month fasting period, so the fact he's already lost that much after maybe 3 months is worrying me. He doesn't seem to be holding onto weight as well as he used to, which could be because he's refused so much food over the past 3 years. He's the lightest weight he's ever been recorded at since I began taking his weight in July 2013 (he was 1277 grams at the end of his fast).

He's been to the vet and doesn't have any illnesses or parasites that they can tell. It's been a year or two, so I could take him again and get him tested but I doubt there's any differences. He's eating a bit better now than when I was taking him to the vet.

Right now, I'm thinking of just caving in and getting a few live mice and/or a live rat and see if he'll eat them next week. I'd wait longer, but he's losing weight faster than I've seen him do in the past. He gains weight quickly when he does eat as well, taking only 2-3 months to get back up to regular weight and then he holds steady.

My main problem is we still plan on moving in the next 2-3 weeks, we're just waiting on word that our background check went through. Then in the next 5 years we hope to move out of state if possible, or at least buy a house in-state to live in permanently. I've already moved twice in 3 years, and Bud is the only snake that has been affected by me moving. All the other snakes either haven't been affected by the big moves (Cloud and Draco), or haven't shown sensitivity to the usually big stress events like shipping and thus I have a reasonable guess that future moves won't bother them as long as there's a decent amount of time between them (Demigod and Sanji for shipping and River and Nymeria for long car rides).

He ate for 9 months in the current set up he's been in, all through the winter, spring, and part of summer. Nothing about his husbandry or set up has changed at all, he began refusing food after I offered him a rat after eating mice for 8 months. He ate a rat once, after eating a mouse first, but after that he's turned his nose up at both mice and rats. At times he shows interest, he'll stick his head out and flick his tongue when I tap it on the ground outside his hide, but beyond inspecting it he won't do anything. He'll even push his nose up against it in its fur, then turn around and go back into his hide and refuse to come back out. Other times, he'll start roaming when he smells the food, but completely ignore the rat/mouse and climb right out of his tub as soon as I lift a corner.

If he doesn't take live, I don't know what else to do, I know I can get him eating again eventually that's not a problem, but I don't know how long he'll eat before he refuses again. If this was just a once a year thing, for a few months, that would be one thing, but he goes on fasts multiple times a year with differing lengths. They do seem stress-related, which means I basically have to step on egg-shells to keep him eating, which makes it harder to keep him eating because he's so sensitive.

I do not handle him at all anymore, only to do cage maintain, and he's allowed to sit curled up in a hide while I do my work. That seems to be really helping to get him to eat reliably, but doesn't stop all his fasts.

So now I need to decide if I want to find him a home with a more experienced ball python owner, where maybe his stress won't be triggered as much, or if I should wait a few years and see if he'll go back to normal when I'm no longer moving around. I want what's best for him.

Temps and humidity are the same they've been for 3-4 years, since I began actually monitoring my snakes' husbandry: 85-90F hot spot, 80F cool end during summer and 75F cool end during the winter and 50-65% humidity. His bedding is the same as well. I measure temps both on the surface with a temp gun and just above the bedding with a thermometer/stat probe. Humidity is measured only on the cool end, from just above the bedding to 1/2" off the bedding to ensure it's far enough away from the bedding to get the humidity in the air. I also measure his body surface temp at his head, belly, and back with the temp gun. So I'm 99.99% sure everything's accurate, all his fasts seem stress-related only, with only a few being related to food source changes, I have no reason to suspect it's husbandry-related atm.

[Lynchman18]

This has been posted on another forum, and will be copy-pasted here to get more opinions. I basically want to know if other people feel he could still rebound and go back to normal if I just give him time and wait until I'm living somewhere at least semi-permanently or if I should give him up to an experience ball python owner. Over the past year or so, he has shown some improvement in his eating habits, but the fact he's losing more weight now than I've ever seen him lose in the past is the #1 reason why I'm considering re-homing him. It just seems that because he can't continue eating reliably that maybe it's taking a toll on his health. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GETTING HIM EATING AGAIN I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS SO FAR. Just in case people think I'm asking how to get him eating again, I've gotten him eating again after each strike, I am not worried about getting him to eat. I am more worried about the long-term negative health effects this many strikes are having on his body. That's it.

COPY-PAST POST BELOW:

My ball python's terrible feeding habits over the past 3 years has me coming to a decision that maybe rehoming him to someone who has steady living may be the best thing to do for him if I can't get him to eat regularly again. I've had him almost 9 years, got him September 23, 2006 as a baby. The first 5-6 years I had him, he ate reliably, winter or summer, but when I made my first move fall of 2013 that's when his bad feeding has started.

The majority of his strikes seem stress-related, each strike has began each time I've moved or changed his enclosure, and once when he escaped his tub. The other two were when I was changing his food source. His longest fast was 8 months long, and shortest was 2 months.

I have feeding records of him since May 2013, and there's only 18 months where he's eaten at least once a month (he gets fed biweekly). Before I began my records, he'd been through 1-2 fasts as well and had lost a noticeable amount of weight. His current fast has been 97 days long, and he's lost at least 10% of his weight. All his other fasts he lost less than 10% of his weight after a 6-8 month fasting period, so the fact he's already lost that much after maybe 3 months is worrying me. He doesn't seem to be holding onto weight as well as he used to, which could be because he's refused so much food over the past 3 years. He's the lightest weight he's ever been recorded at since I began taking his weight in July 2013 (he was 1277 grams at the end of his fast).

He's been to the vet and doesn't have any illnesses or parasites that they can tell. It's been a year or two, so I could take him again and get him tested but I doubt there's any differences. He's eating a bit better now than when I was taking him to the vet.

Right now, I'm thinking of just caving in and getting a few live mice and/or a live rat and see if he'll eat them next week. I'd wait longer, but he's losing weight faster than I've seen him do in the past. He gains weight quickly when he does eat as well, taking only 2-3 months to get back up to regular weight and then he holds steady.

My main problem is we still plan on moving in the next 2-3 weeks, we're just waiting on word that our background check went through. Then in the next 5 years we hope to move out of state if possible, or at least buy a house in-state to live in permanently. I've already moved twice in 3 years, and Bud is the only snake that has been affected by me moving. All the other snakes either haven't been affected by the big moves (Cloud and Draco), or haven't shown sensitivity to the usually big stress events like shipping and thus I have a reasonable guess that future moves won't bother them as long as there's a decent amount of time between them (Demigod and Sanji for shipping and River and Nymeria for long car rides).

He ate for 9 months in the current set up he's been in, all through the winter, spring, and part of summer. Nothing about his husbandry or set up has changed at all, he began refusing food after I offered him a rat after eating mice for 8 months. He ate a rat once, after eating a mouse first, but after that he's turned his nose up at both mice and rats. At times he shows interest, he'll stick his head out and flick his tongue when I tap it on the ground outside his hide, but beyond inspecting it he won't do anything. He'll even push his nose up against it in its fur, then turn around and go back into his hide and refuse to come back out. Other times, he'll start roaming when he smells the food, but completely ignore the rat/mouse and climb right out of his tub as soon as I lift a corner.

If he doesn't take live, I don't know what else to do, I know I can get him eating again eventually that's not a problem, but I don't know how long he'll eat before he refuses again. If this was just a once a year thing, for a few months, that would be one thing, but he goes on fasts multiple times a year with differing lengths. They do seem stress-related, which means I basically have to step on egg-shells to keep him eating, which makes it harder to keep him eating because he's so sensitive.

I do not handle him at all anymore, only to do cage maintain, and he's allowed to sit curled up in a hide while I do my work. That seems to be really helping to get him to eat reliably, but doesn't stop all his fasts.

So now I need to decide if I want to find him a home with a more experienced ball python owner, where maybe his stress won't be triggered as much, or if I should wait a few years and see if he'll go back to normal when I'm no longer moving around. I want what's best for him.

Temps and humidity are the same they've been for 3-4 years, since I began actually monitoring my snakes' husbandry: 85-90F hot spot, 80F cool end during summer and 75F cool end during the winter and 50-65% humidity. His bedding is the same as well. I measure temps both on the surface with a temp gun and just above the bedding with a thermometer/stat probe. Humidity is measured only on the cool end, from just above the bedding to 1/2" off the bedding to ensure it's far enough away from the bedding to get the humidity in the air. I also measure his body surface temp at his head, belly, and back with the temp gun. So I'm 99.99% sure everything's accurate, all his fasts seem stress-related only, with only a few being related to food source changes, I have no reason to suspect it's husbandry-related atm.

[Lynchman18]

Not sure if your other snakes are ball pythons. However what your describing in all my years of owning ball pythons sounds like typical ball python behavior. I had a ball python do almost the same thing as yours. In-fact he went on strike for 7 months once, I had offered him food every week even took him to the vet and nothing was wrong with him health wise. I really wouldn't be to concerned as long as the temp/humidity is correct.

[CloudtheBoa]

I guess you're using mobile then? All my snakes, their names, their species, and year of birth are in my sig.

Bud is the only ball python I own, the rest are of varied species.

I do know that fasting is a normal behavior for them, which is why I haven't been worried about it until now.

The part that doesn't sound normal is the fact that he goes on fasts so often and his level of stress tolerance is ridiculously low. Simply picking up his hide requires a 1-2 day cooling down period, and handling is 2-3 days.

That said, this isn't unheard of just not common. I don't know if I've seen a ball python spend most of its time fasting. It's only in the past year or so he's been eating regularly, and I think it's party because of the addicting nature of mice and partly because I limit handling.

His fasts alone don't worry me, I've learned to deal with them however irritating they may be. It's the sudden increase in weight loss that's giving me a red flag. He shouldn't have lost 10% of his weight in only 3 months.


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[CloudtheBoa]

I just took an updated weight of him and he's fallen from 1242 to 1198 grams in about a month. Here's his body tone. It's not well. He's very thin and his skin is sagging.





I'm going to get some live ASAP and if that doesn't work he's getting either force or assist fed.


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[CloudtheBoa]

Sorry it was actually 1237 grams since the 8th of this month.


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[Lynchman18]

I will agree that maybe he's stressed out more then he should be.. the pictures of him IMHO don't look like he's on the verge of dying. I personally wouldn't be concerned as I've seen ball pythons and other snakes that I've adopted from people who weren't properly caring for them and their skin look like it does when a BP doesn't fully shed where there are actual wrinkles. I'm not saying not to be concerned because of his common food strikes.. Maybe hold him more often.. You said you don't hold him anymore and maybe he's just not used to change. BP's are nocturnal and typically lazy my dad doesn't like them because he thinks because they don't come out of their hides during the day when he comes over and looks inside the tub that they aren't as sociable as my kingsnake and gopher snake that poke their heads out to see whats going on.. So as far as him not coming out very much that is totally normal. If all temps/humidity levels are proper and there is no signs of any kind of infections i'd say just hold him once or twice a week and see if that doesn't help. Maybe someone else could have some other advice. However I don't think you should have to adopt him out because it seems to me your doing just fine.. Oh and no i'm not on mobile i'm at work and clicked send on accident. before I had typed my message..

[CloudtheBoa]

He's now lost 13.1% of his weight. In only 3 months. That's a lot in so short a time. He's gone 8 months and lost less than 10% of his weight, that's a huge difference in weight loss.

He's out all the time now day or night, has been for awhile. I just choose to feed him when he's in a hide because he's usually more inclined to eat if he isn't active.

He's not on the verge of dying but he is underweight and losing weight at an abnormal pace, which is the only reason I am considering force or assist feeding at this time. Other than the weight loss he appears perfectly healthy. His skin tone is healthy, he's not wrinkly, and there's no other signs of illness. There very well could be something going on internally though.


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[Lynchman18]

When he's not on strike what was he eating? Mice or Rats? and how often? Some BP's are picky eaters.. A friend of mines wouldn't take rats and I've heard people say that theirs wont take mice or even a different color rat or mouse. Maybe your is just that kind of special. It may be a case of just trying different things. However just know my first BP ever went 7 months w/o eating and she didn't look like she had been on strike that long. Assist feeding could be an option but i'd personally try other things first.. hopefully he decides to get off the food strike soon.

[CloudtheBoa]

He was raised on rats, then I used mice to get him eating again. He ate mice for 8 months before I tried rats again. He ate a mouse and then a rat in one feeding and nothing since then.

He was fed bi-weekly.


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