have a neglected beardie that came with a dubia colony.

[iguion]

the colony looks in poor shape and the beardie is in pretty poor shape, she was never tamed and looks real thin. I was wondering a few things.

the dubia's kind of look like they have been feeding off eachother for a really long time. Is it safe to still use them as feeders? or should i just trash them?

the beardie is about 4 or 5 years old. is it too late to tame her? also should i be worried about bites? I'm haunted about something I saw on a animal show as a kid about comodo dragons having really deadly bites because of the bacteria in thier mouths.


any other tips I should know? I'm not really an expert but I'd like to get her back in healthy shape and show her some love.

[jclaiborne]

Comparing Komodo Dragons to a Bearded Dragon is a little ridiculous. A bite from a beardie is really nothing to write home about, I would worry about getting her healthy before worrying about taming. Pictures are always helpful in situations like this, but what type of enclosure do you have her in, temps (ambient and basking), what are you feeding her, what type of UV are you providing, does she have signs of MBD, etc.

As far as the dubia colony, again without pics it is hard to say, how big is the colony? It shouldn't be that hard to care for them as long as you provide the "water gel" and food.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

I'm not really clear on what you mean by taming? Is the dragon unusually aggressive when you hold it or are you putting it down on the floor in an open room? Bearded dragons have naturally calm dispositions and unless are being abused (such as a rescue dragon), shouldn't need taming.

Throw a bag of cereal and a sliced orange in the dubia colony. This will provide a sugary boost to jump start them. Give them a more nutritious staple such as chick feed and carrots/ sweet potatoes and you'll be fine.

[iguion]

well sometimes she is aggressive, i've been bit a few times by her which drew blood. when put in an open room she bolts and gets really aggressive.


as with the dubia colony and the dragon I was worried about parasites. i didn't want to end up making her problems worse by feeding her bad dubias and I didn't want to catch anything if she already has parasites.

as for the temps I'll have to work those out later. currently I have her on greens but they go bad so fast so I'd like to move her to something that lasts a bit longer in the fridge so i'm not throwing a bunch of it away.

[jclaiborne]

well sometimes she is aggressive, i've been bit a few times by her which drew blood. when put in an open room she bolts and gets really aggressive.

-putting her down in an open room is scary to them, if she isn't healthy then she is weak and could be easy prey, putting her in an open room is probably stressing her out.

as with the dubia colony and the dragon I was worried about parasites. i didn't want to end up making her problems worse by feeding her bad dubias and I didn't want to catch anything if she already has parasites.

as for the temps I'll have to work those out later. currently I have her on greens but they go bad so fast so I'd like to move her to something that lasts a bit longer in the fridge so i'm not throwing a bunch of it away.

-I am not sure what you mean about working temps out later, you need to establish the proper temps and cage environment for her to recover, improper temps, environment, and UV lead to an animal that wont eat, so the mentality of "working it out later" is wrong. I will ask again what is her current setup like? What size cage, substrate, lighting, temps... they need a steady staple of greens as well as protein, you cant just eliminate feeding it to them because it goes bad fast, if she is eating greens then continue to feed, try feeding dubias, horn worms, super worms, wax worms, butter worms, silk worms, meal worms...the list goes on...


Here is an entire food chart: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

However none of this will matter if the basic needs of a proper enclosure are not met, plain and simple.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

well sometimes she is aggressive, i've been bit a few times by her which drew blood. when put in an open room she bolts and gets really aggressive.


as with the dubia colony and the dragon I was worried about parasites. i didn't want to end up making her problems worse by feeding her bad dubias and I didn't want to catch anything if she already has parasites.

as for the temps I'll have to work those out later. currently I have her on greens but they go bad so fast so I'd like to move her to something that lasts a bit longer in the fridge so i'm not throwing a bunch of it away.

Okay, let's get her environment right first. Try to handle her as little as possible until she's had time to mellow out with the right temps and diet. Don't put her on the floor anymore.

If the dubia colony came with the dragon, then I probably wouldn't worry about new infections. Do you have a reason to think she has parasites? She needs a protein source and if you're not comfortable feeding her those dubias, then destroy them and replace with new ones or go get crickets. Greens are not enough, she has to have insects too. Depending on her age, insects may be the primary food source and not providing them is literally starving her.

You need to get the right temps first. They are exothermic (cold-blooded) and rely on having correct temps to survive. If her temps aren't correct then her body may feel similar to yours as if you had an internal temp of 103F or 95F... she will sicken and eventually die. If you are able, get a temperature gun, they sell them cheaply at Reptile Basics or even Harbor Freight, and you can get exact temps anywhere in the cage.

[iguion]

Okay, let's get her environment right first. Try to handle her as little as possible until she's had time to mellow out with the right temps and diet. Don't put her on the floor anymore.

If the dubia colony came with the dragon, then I probably wouldn't worry about new infections. Do you have a reason to think she has parasites? She needs a protein source and if you're not comfortable feeding her those dubias, then destroy them and replace with new ones or go get crickets. Greens are not enough, she has to have insects too. Depending on her age, insects may be the primary food source and not providing them is literally starving her.

You need to get the right temps first. They are exothermic (cold-blooded) and rely on having correct temps to survive. If her temps aren't correct then her body may feel similar to yours as if you had an internal temp of 103F or 95F... she will sicken and eventually die. If you are able, get a temperature gun, they sell them cheaply at Reptile Basics or even Harbor Freight, and you can get exact temps anywhere in the cage.

well he said he wasn't feeding the dubia's so they have been feeding off the dead ones in there for a really long time. i have her tank set up the hot side is at 95F 50humidity the cool side (side with water bowl) is 90F and 50humidity. I live in southern california so its pretty hot here year around

what I meant by working on the temps in her tank was adjusting the lamps and such to get good readings.

I'm a little strapped for cash is there a way to get her the protein she needs on a budget until I can get on my feet? possibly something i can store in bulk

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

well he said he wasn't feeding the dubia's so they have been feeding off the dead ones in there for a really long time. i have her tank set up the hot side is at 95F 50humidity the cool side (side with water bowl) is 90F and 50humidity. I live in southern california so its pretty hot here year around

what I meant by working on the temps in her tank was adjusting the lamps and such to get good readings.

I'm a little strapped for cash is there a way to get her the protein she needs on a budget until I can get on my feet? possibly something i can store in bulk

So, with your temps, your hot side should be a couple degrees warmer but it's not horrible. You need to drop the cool side by at least 10 degrees. A cool side in the low to mid 70s is preferable but you need to bring it at least down to 80. She has no chance to cool off right now and that's not good. Move the heat lamp as far away from the cool side as you can and get it dropped down.

You're going to have make a decision on the dubia. She needs protein. If it's a choice between nothing and those dubia, I'd give her the dubia. I don't think their feeding off each other will necessarily spread parasites but it will deplete their nutrition. Gut load them with scraps. Give them vegetable scraps, fruit scraps, and carb scraps (stale bread, etc). I don't give any gel to my colonies, they get their hydration from fresh vegetables and this will jam pack them with nutrients.

There's really nothing you can store in bulk protein-wise, fresh and live is the best. You can keep some mealworms and waxworms in the fridge which shouldn't be a primary food source but would be great to supplement with. If you can provide inexpensive food and hydration to your dubia, you'll have awesome protein. If you're worried about potential parasites, go to a pet store and get a couple dozen crickets for a couple bucks.

[iguion]

So, with your temps, your hot side should be a couple degrees warmer but it's not horrible. You need to drop the cool side by at least 10 degrees. A cool side in the low to mid 70s is preferable but you need to bring it at least down to 80. She has no chance to cool off right now and that's not good. Move the heat lamp as far away from the cool side as you can and get it dropped down.

You're going to have make a decision on the dubia. She needs protein. If it's a choice between nothing and those dubia, I'd give her the dubia. I don't think their feeding off each other will necessarily spread parasites but it will deplete their nutrition. Gut load them with scraps. Give them vegetable scraps, fruit scraps, and carb scraps (stale bread, etc). I don't give any gel to my colonies, they get their hydration from fresh vegetables and this will jam pack them with nutrients.

There's really nothing you can store in bulk protein-wise, fresh and live is the best. You can keep some mealworms and waxworms in the fridge which shouldn't be a primary food source but would be great to supplement with. If you can provide inexpensive food and hydration to your dubia, you'll have awesome protein. If you're worried about potential parasites, go to a pet store and get a couple dozen crickets for a couple bucks.

ok thanks a bunch for the advice I'll see what I can do about cleaning up the dubia situation maybe i can salvage it. its a little hard to lower the temp in the enclosure because its always hot inside my house and we dont have central air. but i'll give it a shot.

[jclaiborne]

Where are you located in southern California and how big is the cage, is it glass? If you provide a deep enough substrate it can burrow down to cool off as well. It is currently averaging between 80-90 degrees where I am at and I can still keep a temp gradient. For protein crickets will be the cheapest but you will have to gut load them. These guys need insects, what type of budget are you on? feeders aren't that expensive depending on where you get them.