Ball python industry

[ChelseaV]

So I've been doing my research and planning for the next couple of years when I begin my own breeding program. I've been researching basic care, genetics, etc.
Out of curiosity, I begin researching the ball python industry and was a little worried about what I read. What I gathered was that there was such an abundance of hobby breeders breeding more and more exotic morphs that the market is over saturated and unstable.

I don't plan on doing this as a career or for income. I just really love reptiles, I love being able to pre determine the outcome of the babies appearance before they are born etc. I only plan on having a small amount of breeding animals and I probably will end up keeping many of the offspring born. However, I would like to find home and adopt/sell the offspring I don't decide to keep. And after reading so many articles that make it seem like a rather desolate market, I'm beginning to get worried about my plans. I'm worried I won't be able to find homes for all the offspring and that I will have to end my breeding project early because I don't have room for each breeding season of offspring.

Does anyone have any perhaps positive opinions on the market? I really want to do this as a hobby and I would like to adopt out/sell my babies to potential adopters in the future but I won't pursue this if I won't be able to find good homes for them.

[Chkadii]

It's not quite so bad.

First, there's hobby breeders vs. big breeders (think NERD, BHB, etc.), and importers. Big breeders have the volume, but also have the money. They put resources into hot new morphs, or producing quality, or seeing how many combos they can get into an individual snake. They likely won't have many single gene x single gene pairings, unless it is a new gene or they are trying to isolate genes. They can also afford a variety of supers, so not all snakes will be normals.

Hobby breeders do not have the time or financial resources big breeders have. The constraints of it being a hobby force them to pick what they like and produce snakes that people will want to buy. Out of the hobbyists I can name off the top of my head, Tim (lyfoti05) has amazing enchi hypo stuff and the granny ball. Travis (H00blah) has top notch specials. Deborah (Deborah) has some gorgeous pin pieds. They all have a niche, they aren't breeding without discretion or throwing animals together for the sake of having more. Being hobbyists keeps the numbers down and the quality up. Sure, there are some people who think it's easy money and breed with ignorance, but given the choice as a consumer, would you pay for an enchi het hypo from Tim or a supposedly het albino from a pastel x normal pairing from some dude on Craigslist? People want quality, and those who don't produce quality will quickly find the hobby more work than its worth, because there's no money in it and they aren't passionate about the animals themselves.

Finally we have the importers. Tons of ball pythons come over from Africa. I'm not sure if big box pet stores (Petco/Petsmart) purchase imports. With big breeders, however, there is more of a wholesale market for normal ball pythons. Over time, more pet stores get higher quality and well-adjusted animals that are captive bred rather than wild caught imports that may not ever thrive in captivity. Reptile companies such as Outback can import at their discretion for possible new genes or fresh bloodlines, rather than mass collections. While relying heavily on captive bred does have implications for the python farms/collectors in Africa, it also balances out the market for better or worse.

Now let's touch on saturation. Everyone used to have normal ball pythons, because that's all there were. Then morphs trickled in- albinos, spiders, pieds, etc. that were available for thousands of dollars. That separated the serious breeders from people who wanted a pet. Now, with so many morphs and combos available, there is a nice looking animal at every price point. People can have a spider as a pet instead of a normal. I see pieds as a choice for first BPs. It's not that everyone has too many, consumers just have more of a choice. And where some people wouldn't want three normal ball pythons as pets because they all look the same, they might get a couple morphs to show off the diversity. Due to popularity, there are a ton more choices in husbandry as well. You don't need seven glass tanks - you can use a rack. Weird house temperatures? Use a PVC enclosure. There's a set-up for almost every desire (efficiency, display, etc.) at almost every price point to support ball python ownership. So again, more of a focus on morphs rather than normals, more saturation, but it still balances out a bit.

For you in particular, you have to think about the means you have and the logistics of the project. If you're breeding two hets, or a male against multiple females for a 1/16 chance of getting the animal you need, you will have a lot of offspring to rehome. If you're proving out possible hets, that's a lot of animals to hold back and raise up. Local people may not be able to drop $1500 on an animal you produce despite it being worth that much. By the time you get to the results you want, the retail price of that combo may have dropped. Short answer is this: will you be able to find homes for your animals? Probably, eventually. Will you make easy profit (if any) from breeding? Most likely not. But if you buy quality animals, stay within your means, and have a passion for the process itself, then breeding will have it's own rewards.

[JoshSloane]

I definitely agree with the sentiments listed above. The fact is that the economics of this industry is constantly evolving. It wasn't that long ago that a banana bp was worth tens of thousands of dollars. It is almost impossible as a small time hobby breeder starting out to stay ahead of the curve and be competitive with the latest morphs. They are just too expensive to buy off the bat, and often take a very long time to breed and prove out from hatchlings, especially if they are a combo of multiple genes.

My advice is to pick a couple morphs that are appealing to YOU, and seem to hold some value in the community. Even though they are considered 'old school' I still love albinos and pieds. BEL's still interest me as well. These snakes do sell if you are willing to be realistic about your prices. If you are going to sell at an expo, and price everything the same as everyone else, you likely will be coming home with a bunch of your hatchlings. Since you wont be using this as your primary income source I would recommend being flexible with prices and be ready to cut your prices by maybe 10-20% compared to the other sellers.

[ChelseaV]

Thank you so much for that.

For me in particular, I love the different variations of the spider morph and I love the look of the banana morph as well, so my aim was to perhaps have a queen bee x banana pair and go from there. In my area we have only one specialty reptile store and very rarely do they have anything other then just normal spiders and I've never seen any bananas, coral glows etc, just basic morphs and double gene morphs. I was hoping that when I began my program, that I'd be able to fill the void of these missing morphs in the area, give the collectors, breeders, pet owners in this area a little more variety with in my opinion, some of the most striking morphs without having to pay for shipping.
My main goal over everything is quality. I want to raise breed and raise healthy animals, animals that are well adjusted and feeding well. And are striking and unique in color as well. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to make a small profit from my program, but that's really not my main concern. Like you said, the real reward is the process itself for me. I'm thinking maybe one or two clutches a season in the beginning just to test the water and see what kind of response and how many prospective buyers I'm averaging.
If it takes a while to find good homes for any offspring I have, then so be it. I just want to make sure that there will be good homes out there.


Also, I love the idea of being able to go to an expo with my hatchlings someday. I love going to repticon and it would be awesome if i could have my own table someday. I may not have the most variety or a large amount of animals to sell, but I think I'd just be proud to show off my little ones that I raised all on my own.

[JoshSloane]

Thank you so much for that.

For me in particular, I love the different variations of the spider morph and I love the look of the banana morph as well, so my aim was to perhaps have a queen bee x banana pair and go from there. In my area we have only one specialty reptile store and very rarely do they have anything other then just normal spiders and I've never seen any bananas, coral glows etc, just basic morphs and double gene morphs. I was hoping that when I began my program, that I'd be able to fill the void of these missing morphs in the area, give the collectors, breeders, pet owners in this area a little more variety with in my opinion, some of the most striking morphs without having to pay for shipping.
My main goal over everything is quality. I want to raise breed and raise healthy animals, animals that are well adjusted and feeding well. And are striking and unique in color as well. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to make a small profit from my program, but that's really not my main concern. Like you said, the real reward is the process itself for me. I'm thinking maybe one or two clutches a season in the beginning just to test the water and see what kind of response and how many prospective buyers I'm averaging.
If it takes a while to find good homes for any offspring I have, then so be it. I just want to make sure that there will be good homes out there.


Also, I love the idea of being able to go to an expo with my hatchlings someday. I love going to repticon and it would be awesome if i could have my own table someday. I may not have the most variety or a large amount of animals to sell, but I think I'd just be proud to show off my little ones that I raised all on my own.

I think this is the perfect attitude to have when starting off in this type of endeavor. You absolutely can make a profit from breeding, but just be aware that for the first couple years, you will likely be spending much more money than you will be making in return. Vending at shows is an absolute riot. I cant imagine what it would be like at a mega show, but I had a ton of fun selling animals at our local shows in years past.

[ChelseaV]

I think this is the perfect attitude to have when starting off in this type of endeavor. You absolutely can make a profit from breeding, but just be aware that for the first couple years, you will likely be spending much more money than you will be making in return. Vending at shows is an absolute riot. I cant imagine what it would be like at a mega show, but I had a ton of fun selling animals at our local shows in years past.

From what I've read everywhere else, i figured it would be a little bit before I saw any actual profit. I already sat down and figured out how much my intial investment would be if I wanted to start off small scale, with 2 maybe 3 females and how much I would need to make to just earn that back. I think I read it takes an average of 3-5 years before Most breeders see any real profit. I plan on hopefully within the next couple months getting a couple hatchling females and raising them up to breeding size, so I won't even be ready to breed them for at least 2 to 3 years. I figure that gives me plenty of time to slowly start stashing money aside so when the time comes and they are big enough and ready I can buy the supplies I need.

Thank you everyone for the input. You've made me feel a little better about it.

[JoshSloane]

Youre welcome. Raising your breeders from hatchlings obviously increases the time it takes to make profit, but IMO it is worth it and allows you to ease into the hobby without getting in too deep. You can also carefully watch over the care of your animals from day 1.

[ChelseaV]

Exactly. It also gives me time to evaluate their temperaments as well. I don't know how big of a factor temperament is when it comes to reptiles but when I bred gerbils, the animals with the gentlest personalities were always the ones I picked over the less friendly, nippy counterparts. I don't want to breed Ill tempered animals. Their offspring may end up being pets for a young child and in my opinion, it's my responsibility as a breeder to make sure that the animals being produced in my care are going to make excellent pets for anyone.

[JoshSloane]

It isn't incredibly well founded how temperament is inherited in reptiles. What we do know is that the farther that reptiles get away from their wild caught counterparts, generally the more tractable and calmer they become. Any BP you pick up these days is almost guaranteed to be dozens of generations away from wild caught. However, I do have a boa that is only two generations from wild caught, and it is sweet as sugar.

Some of my best breeder bps in the past were mean, nasty snakes, but produced very calm offspring. I think it is more your responsibility to only sell the hatchlings that are healthy and relatively manageable. Not all hatchlings will have a predisposition to being tame, and its important to let the potential buyer know that before they purchase.

[Hypancistrus]

Exactly. It also gives me time to evaluate their temperaments as well. I don't know how big of a factor temperament is when it comes to reptiles but when I bred gerbils, the animals with the gentlest personalities were always the ones I picked over the less friendly, nippy counterparts. I don't want to breed Ill tempered animals. Their offspring may end up being pets for a young child and in my opinion, it's my responsibility as a breeder to make sure that the animals being produced in my care are going to make excellent pets for anyone.

THIS is a great attitude to have. I wish more reptile people had it.