My "theory"

[SatanicIntention]

The parasites that we are "supposedly" freezing off are usually host-specific, especially if they are external parasites (ie:mites). I will ask my teacher more about this and see if I can get it cleared up. From what I learned in parasitology though, most parasites are host-specific, meaning they can only live on that specific animal. Pet store rats have the parasites associated with being kept in dirty conditions with too many animals in one enclosure. If one has it, they will all get it. The majority of them have tapeworms, pinworms and coccidia. These are all zoonotic(transferable to us) but I don't think any of us have the habit of licking mouse bottoms...

There are some parasites that have an intermediate host. Some of those include rodents, earthworms, frogs, bugs, etc. I'm not going to get into a parasitology lesson, but most of those parasites that actually have to have an intermediate host are the pretty serious ones (lung flukes, liver flukes, etc) Nasty buggers.

Adam, I will try to get a more definitive answer from my teacher, and hopefully some sources. I will also try to find my parasitology book and maybe get some pictures scanned of the contents. Hopefully that will help.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Becky, you rock! ... Thank you.

I think the "freeze your rodents to kill parasites" myth comes from trying to get rid of snake mites ... It's the only way it makes sense to me. And if your rodent supplier has snake mites on his rats .... don't freeze them, find a new rodent supplier ... LOL

-adam

[Cody]

yea she always eats the food never has turned down any type(altho never tried f/t(dont have any down here)

Well, the thing about f/t is if you can't buy them already frozen, you can always freeze them yourself, lol.


I'd just like to say that this could quite possibly have been one of the most informative and useful topics I've read in my short time visiting these forums. I've learned so much, and now have a new outlook on feeding live thanks to Mr. Wysocki. I'll still be feeding my snakes frozen thawed whenever I can, but I don't think I'll be so quick to jump on someone who feeds live anymore. This has been a great discussion/debate, and hopefully there'll be many more posts to read in this topic when I come on later.

I guess the only setback was the fact that it took me literally an hour to read all 70+ replies in this topic, lol. Lots of distractions though. Darn tv.

[Adam_Wysocki]

but I don't think I'll be so quick to jump on someone who feeds live anymore.

Excellent .... This post made all of that typing worth it.

A great man once said "You have to free your mind Neo" .... As I said earlier, I would never advocate one method of feeding as being better than others. I just wanted people to see the truth ... that if you're responsible and love your animals, there is nothing wrong with live feeding. (can ya tell that i'm a huge Matrix fan ... lol)

Oh and ya gotta drop the "Mr. Wysocki" thing ... I was looking to see if my dad posted on this thread .... "adam" or "dork" works!

-adam

[Ginevive]

I think you only need to see the damage a mouse or rat can do one time before you realize that feeding live prey is just not worth the risk.

Smynx said it best. My friend's adult BCI has horrible scarring on her face and neck, from being fed live. I guess she started constricting the rat, and it was biting her, and the former owners could not pry the rat out of her grasp; trying to do so only made her coil tighter and get more messed up. I really gotta get a pic of that scarring, it is horrible.
I think that feeding live is like riding in a car without your seatbelt; maybe nothing will happen, but if something bad does, it'll be too late for you to do anything about it while it's happening.

[RobertCoombs]

Dont Know how I missed this thread !! Ok I have a small collection of ball pythons 32, Have been keeping and breeding reptiles of all sorts from the age of 7 now 28 and still do
I notice an insinuation that ball pythons being fed frozen or fresh killed dont eat as well as those being fed live ..out of the 32 I currently have including breeding males 0 of them are off feed, males are pulled from the females cage 2 days a week and are fed. I feed all the tubs once seperated come back 30 mins later to insure thet every one has eaten and I wont have a rotting food item in the tub or cage, I dont have to dangle the food item to get a feeding responce ... most times its hit and coiled before reaching the cage floor
Now back to the earlier days of snake keeping .. I have seen a good many feeding go wrong and have had several snakes get chewed on, its not a fun thing to have happen or watch, through those experiences I chose to feed frozen thawed . I feel it is safer for the animal
These are just my experiences and opinions

[Smynx]

Ginevive, I almost used the seatbelt analogy the other day. That's exactly what it is like.

Robert, I feed 4 BPs every week (Smulkin feeds the other 3), and I've had the same experience you have. Usually they hit and coil immediately. Every once in while one might take 10 to 20 seconds to strike, and usually if it takes any longer than that, they're not going to eat anyway (usually either because they're getting ready to shed or because it's an adult that has gone off feed).

[Adam_Wysocki]

I think you only need to see the damage a mouse or rat can do one time before you realize that feeding live prey is just not worth the risk.

Smynx said it best. My friend's adult BCI has horrible scarring on her face and neck, from being fed live. I guess she started constricting the rat, and it was biting her, and the former owners could not pry the rat out of her grasp; trying to do so only made her coil tighter and get more messed up. I really gotta get a pic of that scarring, it is horrible.
I think that feeding live is like riding in a car without your seatbelt; maybe nothing will happen, but if something bad does, it'll be too late for you to do anything about it while it's happening.

So we should all take the bus instead of ride in cars? It's a nice idea, but not what happens in reality.

I'd really like to see pics of a "ball python" with that kind of scaring from a single supervised feeding attempt.

-adam

[Adam_Wysocki]

Dont Know how I missed this thread !! Ok I have a small collection of ball pythons 32, Have been keeping and breeding reptiles of all sorts from the age of 7 now 28 and still do
I notice an insinuation that ball pythons being fed frozen or fresh killed dont eat as well as those being fed live ..out of the 32 I currently have including breeding males 0 of them are off feed, males are pulled from the females cage 2 days a week and are fed. I feed all the tubs once seperated come back 30 mins later to insure thet every one has eaten and I wont have a rotting food item in the tub or cage, I dont have to dangle the food item to get a feeding responce ... most times its hit and coiled before reaching the cage floor
Now back to the earlier days of snake keeping .. I have seen a good many feeding go wrong and have had several snakes get chewed on, its not a fun thing to have happen or watch, through those experiences I chose to feed frozen thawed . I feel it is safer for the animal
These are just my experiences and opinions

Robert, were all of these animals such good eaters on frozen from day one?

Also, how many is "a good many" and were they all ball pythons. Putting some kind of numbers behind this and then determining the statistical likely hood of a bite from a live feeding might help people understand my point a little better.

Thank you for sharing Robert, I really appreciate your experience and input to this topic.

-adam

[Smynx]

So we should all take the bus instead of ride in cars? It's a nice idea, but not what happens in reality.

No one said anything about taking a bus. The analogy was that feeding live is like riding in a car without a seatbelt on. Statistically, chances may be low that you'll be involved in a serious accident, but in the off chance that you are, wouldn't you rather be wearing the seatbelt?

Quite frankly, Adam, I'm surprised you're still arguing this. Plenty of people here have described injuries they have seen first-hand, most of which were not from unsupervised feedings. You talk about being responsible, yet you say you just drop in the live mouse and walk away. You say that feeding frozen/thawed would take up too much time, yet if you actually supervised your feedings it would take up just as much if not more time than feeding frozen/thawed. Rusty described how she can drop in a dead prey item and walk away with total peace of mind.

Personally, I prefer a breeder that starts snakes off on frozen/thawed prey. It makes for much less picky eaters. All the snakes I have that have had nothing but frozen/thawed food are excellent eaters and have never missed a feeding unless their eyes were clouded over during a shed.