My "theory"

[Shrap]

Excellent post, Adam!!

[green_man]

heres my humble opinion on the matter...

I started out feeding live. Sometimes the snake doesnt get a good grip on the prey and the prey scratches or bites the snake constricing it. I have personally seen my snake get scratched (not enough to bleed) and I have heard of the snake being bitten while constricting. Albiet, a rare thing for the snake to become injured, but why risk it? If the snake will take dead prey, there is no reason to feed live.

[Marla]

Just to establish where I stand on this, I believe feeding f/t or p/k is safer and a better choice for most (especially new) keepers, but am not completely anti-live, particularly with good feeders, "clean" rodents, and experienced keepers.

To me, live feeding is just as humane as feeding PK or FT. In the end the rodent is DEAD and that is sad, but without it the snake would be dead and the rodent would be fed to something else.

If you are breeding prey, yes it would just become food for something else, but pet store rodents often become pets if not fed to reptiles. Further, cervical dislocation generally means ~1 sec of pain, whacking generally takes up to a few seconds to kill or desensitize (with a second whack killing), CO2 depending on concentration generally knocks out within 10 seconds at most, and constriction can take up to or even more than a minute, depending on the angle of capture, intensity of the squeeze, etc. I'm not saying that live=evil or anything, but it is a slower and more painful way to die for the rodent.

I've observed thousands of live feedings and I can tell you for sure that if the snake does strike and miss the rodent, the rodent doesn't "retaliate"

I have seen both mice and rats fight to free themselves once struck if hit at a bad angle and constricted around the lower body -- biting on the head repeatedly until stopped by the keeper, and I have seen mice run and attack a snake behind the head when it missed on the first strike. I don't suppose I've witnessed quite "thousands" of live feedings, but it didn't take that many to observe these behaviors, even if they are less common than cowering. This is why it is important to supervise, not because a leg might get caught on a tooth or something.

I promote feeding in a way that works best for the owner and the snake(s). Over the years, I have done FT, PK, and live and it turns out that live works best for me. What I take issue with is people regurgitating so-called "facts" that they've heard on the internet when they have no practical experience with the subject matter. If feeding pre-killed or frozen thawed works for you, great! But please don't tell other people that feeding live will cause their snake to get chewed up, isn't safe, or isn't as easy, cause it's just not true.

I agree that different methods work better for different keepers, and if live works best for you, then that's fine. I also agree that it is better to get your advice from experienced keepers or vets, in general, though I have seen better advice come from newbie keepers than from ill-informed vets and poor but long-term keepers on occasion. Feeding live is considerably more likely to result in a chewed-up snake than feeding dead prey (even if live doesn't result in attacks or defense wounds >99% of the time), is less safe in terms of wounds as well as internal and external parasites and germs, and is easier for some keepers in the sense that it requires more prep time but no interaction or supervision and is easier to maintain stock without having to breed. Does this mean that every keeper has to do things exactly the same way and follow a prescribed formula? Not at all, but it does mean that for inexperienced, jumpy, forgetful/inattentive, or particularly young keepers, I will absolutely recommend f/t or p/k.

[Smynx]

Albiet, a rare thing for the snake to become injured, but why risk it? If the snake will take dead prey, there is no reason to feed live.

Excellent point, greenman!

[Adam_Wysocki]

seen my snake get scratched (not enough to bleed) and I have heard of the snake being bitten while constricting.

No blood from the scratch and you've heard of (but not actually seen for your self) a bite once ... hmmm ... and that's enough for you to decide that there is risk?

Certainly not knocking your choice, just trying to figure out where all of these "live prey" phobias come from.

If I told you that I've heard of (not seen for my self) teeth and claws from a pre-killed rodent tearing the esophageal tract of a ball python and killing it, would that even things out and make pre-killed just as risky? :?:

-adam

[green_man]

adam- explain to me the advantage to feeding live vs dead. I just dont get why if there is a potential risk you would still feed live if your snake will take dead. What is the gain? Even if I am only avoiding a 1% chance of my snake being injured, I will opt to avoid it when the other options work just as well.

edit: not to mention feeding frozen thawed eliminates many if not all parasites.

I can see some one in your position not taking the time to thaw out 1000 mice, or whatever the case may be, but for the average keeper, its no trouble.

[Smynx]

I'm going to warn everyone not to get personal on this one. We all have our preferances and our reasons for them. A healthy debate is one thing, but a personal attack is quite another.

[green_man]

I certainly hope I am not out of line, if I am, I apollogize Adam...

[Adam_Wysocki]

I just don't see the potential risk? 10 years of feeding many many ball pythons (we're talking tens of thousands of feedings) and I've never had one bite, one scratch, nothing ... if there is risk I think I would have seen it by now? I can't see it being 1%, not even .01% .... trust me, when feeding snakes that cost 10, 20, 50 thousand each I would not feed live if I thought there was risk. Feeding live is really no big deal!

The advantage is that my snakes eat more consistently than when I used to use PK and FT ... every week without a doubt. I don't have to waste time dangling for thawing rodents. If a snake won't eat because of shedding or breeding, I can offer it the same rat in a week. And in my personal opinion (which I have no evidence to back up because it's just an observation) my snakes seem to "enjoy" live prey. They are more eager to come out and eat and hit more aggressively when a live meal is offered than when a PK or FT is. On top of that, have you ever tried to get a hatchling ball python to take it's first meal as a PK or FT? It's not fun at all! :mrgreen:


-adam

[Adam_Wysocki]

I certainly hope I am not out of line, if I am, I apollogize Adam...

Oh no way ... this is fun! ... I really don't care how anyone else feeds, I just don't like to see posts that discourage other keepers or potentially new keepers from feeding live without any evidence to support it.

A picture off of the internet or "I heard about this thing one time" is not evidence to me ... if you've seen proof that there is risk in feeding live in your own collection, let's hear it. I'll listen!

-adam