My "theory"

[Adam_Wysocki]

This could go on forever. I think I've said all I need to say on this topic.

No one is asking this to go on forever. You've voiced your opinion and that's awesome! Your comments were greatly appreciated!

-adam

[Ginevive]

If any of you do feed live, could you please shed light on something for me? I am wondering what your emergency plan is, in the event your snake becomes bitten as it's coiling around the prey item. I an really interested to know this.
Say you have a prized ball python that is fed live rats by you. You serve the rat to the snake just like you always do, and the snake coils and somehow, the jaws of that rat clamp down around your snake's neck (or even worse, into the inner part of its mouth, if the snake has grabbed it headfirst.) What would you honestly be able to do to save your snake from damage in this situation?

I highly doubt that trying to remove the offending rat from the snake's coils, would work.
I am eagerly awaiting your responses.

[Marla]

I am proud of our members in keeping this from devolving into a flame war so far, with such a controversial topic. However, the information provided seems to be declining, and the quality of the conversation is going downhill. If there are any more posts that appear to be personal in nature or steering the discussion in that direction, I WILL lock the thread, even if just temporarily to give time for folks to cool down. Still, it has been discussed both courteously and informatively for the most part, so let's try to stick to that.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I am wondering what your emergency plan is, in the event your snake becomes bitten as it's coiling around the prey item. I an really interested to know this.

I have no emergency plan. My collection is worth a lot of money (not nearly as much as some out there, but to me, a whole lot), but even more than that it is worth 10 years+ of very hard work. 10 years+ of cleaning cages at all hours of the night, 10 years+ of successes and failures, and 10 years+ of friendships with some of the coolest animals in the world.

It is worth all of that to me, and I have enough experience with successful live feedings of ball pythons that I know I don't need an emergency plan.

Say you have a prized ball python that is fed live rats by you. You serve the rat to the snake just like you always do, and the snake coils and somehow, the jaws of that rat clamp down around your snake's neck (or even worse, into the inner part of its mouth, if the snake has grabbed it headfirst.) What would you honestly be able to do to save your snake from damage in this situation?

Snake's neck or inner part of it's mouth? How many live feedings have you actually seen? Ball pythons don't strike their prey in a way that would let this happen. Sure, when feeding PK or FT (especially FT) the odd heat pattern of the prey can confuse the snake and cause it's target to be a head or a leg, but when feeding live prey the heat imprint is exactly as it should be and the ball python "hits the right spot".

They are designed to eat live food. The prey they have primarily EVOLVED to eat is an especially sharped tooth and nasty little rodent. They, better than your or I, know just how to strike and coil around a rodent to avoid getting bitten or scratched and they do it in my collection time and time again with percision.

The stories on this thread of live feeding accidents that occor during the strike and constriction (as opposed to leaving a rodent unspervised for a length of time) sometimes make me wonder if a ball python under stress or in slightly poor health has problems hitting it's mark. It would explain a lot and is entirely feasible given that healthy ball pythons do soooo well eating live prey without incident.

I highly doubt that trying to remove the offending rat from the snake's coils, would work.

For live feddings, I don't have to worry about it. But over the years I've had to uncoil ball pythons from arms, legs, towels, and other items hit and constricted in accidental feeding responses and I don't think I understand what the issue would be?

-adam

[Adam_Wysocki]

I am proud of our members in keeping this from devolving into a flame war so far, with such a controversial topic. However, the information provided seems to be declining, and the quality of the conversation is going downhill. If there are any more posts that appear to be personal in nature or steering the discussion in that direction, I WILL lock the thread, even if just temporarily to give time for folks to cool down. Still, it has been discussed both courteously and informatively for the most part, so let's try to stick to that.

Thanks Marla! and thank you to everyone invloved to far. This has to be one of the most mature discussions about ball python feeding methods that I've seen on the internet. It's really a testement to the quality of people on this site and the reason why I enjoy coming here.

-adam

[Marla]

Say you have a prized ball python that is fed live rats by you. You serve the rat to the snake just like you always do, and the snake coils and somehow, the jaws of that rat clamp down around your snake's neck (or even worse, into the inner part of its mouth, if the snake has grabbed it headfirst.) What would you honestly be able to do to save your snake from damage in this situation?

Snake's neck or inner part of it's mouth? How many live feedings have you actually seen? Ball pythons don't strike their prey in a way that would let this happen. Sure, when feeding PK or FT (especially FT) the odd heat pattern of the prey can confuse the snake and cause it's target to be a head or a leg, but when feeding live prey the heat imprint is exactly as it should be and the ball python "hits the right spot".

Actually, as I think I may have mentioned earlier, I had a live feeding go awry with a bad strike that left the rat able to bite on the ball python's neck. I intervened, and the snake was okay (wound cleaned and treated at home, ball watched for unusual behavior or symptoms of infection), but the rat was able to hurt the snake. I don't know how likely a bite inside the mouth would be, but a bad strike can certainly allow for neck and possibly head biting, as well as body if the snake is coiled in a way to present it.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Say you have a prized ball python that is fed live rats by you. You serve the rat to the snake just like you always do, and the snake coils and somehow, the jaws of that rat clamp down around your snake's neck (or even worse, into the inner part of its mouth, if the snake has grabbed it headfirst.) What would you honestly be able to do to save your snake from damage in this situation?

Snake's neck or inner part of it's mouth? How many live feedings have you actually seen? Ball pythons don't strike their prey in a way that would let this happen. Sure, when feeding PK or FT (especially FT) the odd heat pattern of the prey can confuse the snake and cause it's target to be a head or a leg, but when feeding live prey the heat imprint is exactly as it should be and the ball python "hits the right spot".

Actually, as I think I may have mentioned earlier, I had a live feeding go awry with a bad strike that left the rat able to bite on the ball python's neck. I intervened, and the snake was okay (wound cleaned and treated at home, ball watched for unusual behavior or symptoms of infection), but the rat was able to hurt the snake. I don't know how likely a bite inside the mouth would be, but a bad strike can certainly allow for neck and possibly head biting, as well as body if the snake is coiled in a way to present it.

I wonder if there was some other condition that caused the errant strike? Stress, possible unknown illness, standing in the snakes like of sight but behind the rodent distorting the rodents natural heat signature, movement or strange smell in the room? 99% of my animals strike and coil and end up with the rodents mouth down and away from their body with a tight coil around it's neck. I can't begin to beleive that this is coincidence.

-adam

[Marla]

Thanks Marla! and thank you to everyone invloved to far. This has to be one of the most mature discussions about ball python feeding methods that I've seen on the internet. It's really a testement to the quality of people on this site and the reason why I enjoy coming here.

-adam

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this is absolutely the best reptile forum I have ever visited (which is why I bought a piece when the site became available). We have a good mix of experienced and new keepers and are generally able to discuss issues respectfully, even when we might disagree strongly.

I personally think that there are a lot more valid options (plastic vs. glass vs. wood vs. other, CHE vs. UTH vs. lamp, live vs. p/k vs. f/t, for examples) than absolute no-no's in reptile keeping (unsecured tops, unsafe heat rocks, failure to clean enclosures, for examples), and I'm glad that we can share what works for us and help others find what will work for them and their animals. The key, to me, is making sure what you're doing actually works for the animals and meets their needs -- nutrition, safety, health, etc. Beyond that, it's just technique and preference.

[Marla]

I wonder if there was some other condition that caused the errant strike? Stress, possible unknown illness, standing in the snakes like of sight but behind the rodent distorting the rodents natural heat signature, movement or strange smell in the room? 99% of my animals strike and coil and end up with the rodents mouth down and away from their body with a tight coil around it's neck. I can't begin to beleive that this is coincidence.

-adam

I have no idea if there may have been another condition involved, but if there was, she resolved it on her own and without discernable symptoms -- in fact, a bad strike or two and a nose rub scar (when she came to me) are the only troubles I've ever seen from her, unless you count the recent bite that was my fault. It was her third feeding with me (quick strikes each time, eager to eat), and took place in a bathtub as she was on loose substrate at that time. I was not in any way between her and her target, but kneeling a bit back from the tub so as to keep out of her line of sight and make clear the heat signature she needed to follow (easy enough in a tub). The door was shut, and there were no other humans or pets in the room. I don't know why she had bad aim, but this was not a sickly snake or on meds, a defensive strike, a snake returning from fasting, or any other obvious possible cause.

[Ginevive]

I used to feed live mice to Ashes (who was then known as Octavia, before I knew he was male.) He ate that way for a few months, until a mouse bit his neck, about an inch behind his head, while he was in prestrike position. Ashes recoiled instantly, and thus began a fast that lasted several months. Only way I got him finally eating again, was to start feeding rat hoppers; maybe the different scent was less threatening, who knows?
Bela always grabs her prekilled prey headfirst, with the rat's nose going into her mouth. Even if that rat were merely stunned and not fully dead, I think it'd instinctively try to bite whatever was in its mouth's grasp.
I don't know, to each their own I guess. I just know what works for me. I just know that rat and mouse bties hurt a LOT, and I do not want even a ghost of a chance of my snake having to endure that. Too much can go wrong in a millisecond!