Terrible and Avoidable Tragedy

[tbowman]

https://www.facebook.com/tim.cole.94...892563?fref=nf

"As a lot of you may have heard by now, there was a death that may have resulted from a cobra bite in the Austin area.
I was brought in to assist with the situation along with caring for the animals that were found in the car.
It was a long night removing contained animals and searching the vehicle for any animals that may have gotten loose in the vehicle.
The cobra was not found. It was a Monacle Suphan Cobra about 3 ft. long.
In my opinion there are some indications that Grant Thompson may have met up with someone last night and sold the Monacle Cobra he owned.
After discussing this with the Detective on the case, he agreed that it would be ok to reach out to the venomous community to see if some actually has this snake in their possession.
I don't need to point out the worst case scenario would be an escaped cobra which will be made public shortly.
It would be a great sigh of relief if someone stepped up and said they had possession of this snake even if they lived in an area where possession was illegal.
I would even offer to be the recipient of the snake if someone wants to remain anonymous.
This is the ammunition that animal rights groups live for even though this is extremely rare."
If anyone can assist with this inquiry, please call me at (512) 83-SNAKE or e-mail me at [timcole@austinreptileservice.net]. No texts or pm's.

[C2tcardin]

It was found dead this morning along the highway.

[Capps14e]

It was found dead this morning along the highway.

That's a shame. I was hoping it could be captured and put in the care of someone more qualified.

[distaff]

That's a shame. I was hoping it could be captured and put in the care of someone more qualified.

Yes, a shame.

As far as regulations, people do stupid things all the time, regardless of laws.
Do we really want a nanny state?

This man only managed to kill himself, and the cobra is no longer a danger to others.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

This is exactly why I believe proper training and licensing should be required for keeping hots. Any 18 year old kid with $200 should NOT be able to just go online and buy such a dangerous animal. This was a very senseless tragedy.

I'm generally against regulations on what people can have as pets, but in cases of animals that can be fatal even when contained and handled properly (big cats, venomous snakes, ect.) I think the licensing should be stricter so that only qualified people who are devoted to doing things right can get their hands on them and if something goes wrong they would be the only ones endangered by it.

Just for clarification, I don't really consider big constrictors to be in that group. They're not going to do fatal damage in two seconds, and if they could overpower and kill someone there should really be another person around when that animal is being handled.

I agree. I used to include giants in the need for regulations category but I've amplified my position.

While I understand where you are coming from, understand that supporting regulations/bans on any animals gives support to banning ALL animals including ball pythons. There is a concerted movement out there to ban virtually every type of animal from ownership. They see no difference between a ball python and rectic. Or your corn snake and a tiger. This is already policy in many cities around the country. We can see this "mission creep" taking effect with the Lacey Act as more and more animals are added.

Exotic animal owners can stand strong together or be divided and conquered as special interest after special interest gets taken down. Regulations is a meaningless term that very quickly becomes an outright ban. Right now there are some exotic animals whose "regulations" entails being a licensed member of the AZA. This is a essentially a ban on private ownership. Don't give HSUS, PETA, and their ilk more ammunition to take your animals away.

Colin Weaver of East Coast Reptile Breeders gives an excellent explanation of this tactic here:
http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2011/11...k-be-a-lesson/

Probably the best two paragraphs of the article but go read it!

I know how the end of reptile ownership is going to happen. If we continue on our current path it will mirror what happened in the UK. The voices of opposition in the UK screamed, “you can’t legislate a madman”, meaning that a ban on firearms would not stop the next massacre from happening. If someone wants to get a gun and go on a shooting spree it will happen. No law is going to prevent that. My screams as a reptile owner have been of a similar vein. I oppose any legal limitations on the rights of responsible pet owners. No matter how responsible a pet owner I am there will always be someone out there who is not. That person will do something stupid and my rights will be removed as a result.

But why? Why do the actions of a few lead to restrictions on the many? The answer is simple: Legislation is a bludgeon tool. It lacks finesse. Laws have not, can not and will not deal with subtlety and nuance. They are a widely cast net that frequently catches huge numbers of unintended victims. I have already heard it said. “Our inspectors are not trained tell the difference between a Burmese python and a Boa Constrictor so the most simple course of action is to ban them both.” If that’s the case then how would a local law enforcement official tell the difference between a blood python and a burmese python? Simple: He can’t. Well, we better ban blood pythons too …just to be safe. And when the time comes to ban ball pythons you can rest assured that Angolan pythons will be thrown out with them. They look too similar. And so it will happen; our compartmentalized herpetocultural community will fall in small group after small group. And each group will remain silent as the others are attacked. It will probably take the next decade or two to happen but the writing is on the wall. The anti-pet movement is more than ready to wait us out and I have not seen evidence of the community having the stomach for a long fight.

[tbowman]

I think there is a big difference between a realistic and minimalistic nationwide permit system for venomous and perhaps a separate system for large constrictors, and the slippery slope of banning all of our pets.

The state of Florida is a prime example, they've had a proper permit system in place for some time now.

If the responsible owners have no way to differentiate themselves from the people who are doing it wrong, I believe it will be a lot easier for them to get rid of them all.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

I think there is a big difference between a realistic and minimalistic nationwide permit system for venomous and perhaps a separate system for large constrictors, and the slippery slope of banning all of our pets.

Who is calling for a realistic and minimalist permit system? I see groups trying to ban all exotic pets, including reptiles, and they are having success at the local, state, and federal levels. This isn't some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory... this is real and it is happening. They will smile, shake your hand on a minimalist system, and then will push for more the second it's in place.

The state of Florida is a prime example, they've had a proper permit system in place for some time now.

I may be mistaken but wasn't one of the prime reasons for the Myrtle Beach show starting because FL was going to make it impossible to have hots at Daytona? I may be wrong on that but it's what I recall through the grapevine years ago. Regardless, FL isn't exactly the poster child for exotic animal friendly policies.

If the responsible owners have no way to differentiate themselves from the people who are doing it wrong, I believe it will be a lot easier for them to get rid of them all.

I have the perfect way to differentiate between responsible owners and the people who are doing it wrong. It won't take any additional regulations and will have a profound effect on those who are behaving irresponsibly. It's called charging such people with public endangerment, involuntary homicide, assault, etc. when such an action is called for. It's the exact same system used for dog and livestock owners who are held accountable if their animals cause injury or death. Prison and/or loss of your house depending on the level of negligence will differentiate between owners real quick.

I don't have the numbers but I'm quite sure a significantly greater number of people are killed or injured by just pitbulls than by all captive exotics combined every year in America... do we need a nationwide permit system for pitbull ownership or is it enough to hold irresponsible pitbull owners accountable when injuries occur?

[tbowman]

Who is calling for a realistic and minimalist permit system?

I've seen many respectable hot keepers recommend it. Such as Al Coritz and If I recall correctly Jim Harrison. It's also been brought up by a lot of Large Constrictor keepers.

I see groups trying to ban all exotic pets, including reptiles, and they are having success at the local, state, and federal levels. This isn't some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory... this is real and it is happening. They will smile, shake your hand on a minimalist system, and then will push for more the second it's in place.

Just because I don't agree with what you perceive to be the solution, does NOT mean I am unaware of the current campaigns being driven by Animal Rights groups and other organizations who have been trying for some time to get rid of us.

When has a realistic system ever been in place? From my point of view, a realistic permit system for these types of animals would only make it more difficult to pass further legislation against them.

I have the perfect way to differentiate between responsible owners and the people who are doing it wrong. It won't take any additional regulations and will have a profound effect on those who are behaving irresponsibly. It's called charging such people with public endangerment, involuntary homicide, assault, etc. when such an action is called for. It's the exact same system used for dog and livestock owners who are held accountable if their animals cause injury or death. Prison and/or loss of your house depending on the level of negligence will differentiate between owners real quick.

I don't have the numbers but I'm quite sure a significantly greater number of people are killed or injured by just pitbulls than by all captive exotics combined every year in America... do we need a nationwide permit system for pitbull ownership or is it enough to hold irresponsible pitbull owners accountable when injuries occur?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-daughter.html


Nothing is going to stop Animal Rights Groups from proposing legislation. It will be harder for them to be turned into law with some legislation already in place on certain species.

I don't agree that we should have to have a permit system in place for any of these animals, but that's the world we live in.

PitBulls are still mammals, and as such they are viewed by the general populous in a completely different light than any of our reptiles.

If we did everything the same for mammals as we do for reptiles, millions of people wouldn't be letting their cats out every night, we'd have feral cat roundups, and it'd be a federal offense to transport them across state lines.

[tbowman]

Prior to 2012 Ohio had very relaxed laws regarding exotics.

In 2011 this happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskin...ty_Animal_Farm

This was signed into law June 2012

http://www.agri.ohio.gov/TopNews/Dan...WildAnimalAct/

If I recall correctly USARK was very involved in this case and lost. Although I do believe the initial proposal was much more radical than what it ended up actually being.

There is a direct correlation between these types of events and restrictive legislation.

We have to do more than strictly oppose all legislation. We also have to fight to make sure anything that is introduced is realistic and achievable by the responsible keeper.

[Megg]

That's a shame. I was hoping it could be captured and put in the care of someone more qualified.

X2, it is a real shame. I was also hoping it would be caught and placed in a zoo, or some other facility equipped to care for it.


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