Snake cognitive ability and affection.

[Billy29]

I want to first start off saying I work as a scientist and have a Masters in Environmental Science. I know a little bit about animal behavior.

Now that I have that disclaimer out of the way, I want to start a discussion that has been kicked around on various forums.

Do snakes show affection? I read that snakes have no concept of love and even read from so called experts that they have no memory. First we can throw out the concept of snakes having no memory out the window because conditioning proves that they have memory.

Now what do they think of us? Are we a warm moving tree that provides food? I think they are a little smarter than that. When a baby snake hatches its instinct is to strike at us, it's fearful that it might get eaten by the big creature that is holding it. I do believe they understand us as living beings just like them. So what happens after a while when we own the little snake and he calms down and let's us handle him? It is my belief that the snake has a level of trust because it learns that it is safe when it is with you. We all know that snakes trust some people and not others. They recognize owners either by sight or scent. We hear time and again of how the husband or wife can take the snake out but the snake strikes at the spouse. The snake trusts one particular person and that person has earned the snakes trust and respect.

Now do snakes love? Being they supposedly are missing that part of the brain or its underdeveloped scientists say no. But there are other senses that animals have that people don't have. Maybe the snake doesn't love you but it associates you with good and I can see that they could have enjoyment out of being out of their enclosure being with you. If you were to die it's not going to cry but may wonder why it's not being taken out by its big creature that it trusts.

Now some may argue that snakes don't understand good. There is always a opposite reaction to something. If a snake understands fear it must have feelings of good whether it's happiness we have no way to measure that. But let's say they have feeling of the opposite of fear.

So to end this, I believe snakes can be conditioned and they have limited ability to form bonds with people. They can learn to trust you and associate you with good things like feeding, being taken out of the enclosure and safety. So if a snake associates you with good and trusts you, I think that is a pretty good bond to have.


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[Billy29]

Please excuse the grammar it was written on my iPhone.


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[Reinz]

I studied quite a bit of animal behavior myself while in college. However, I don't recall studying reptiles and that was a lifetime ago.

I agree with you on the memory. To back it up, when I let my 13 yr old BP out to play on her own in her locked room. Hours later I can always find her in the same place. Not just under the nearby dresser, but in a place that takes some complex moves and a lot of energy to get to, inside a closed wardrobe.

Many creatures have genetic makeup that just make them do certain things, these are "innate". Like ducklings following the first thing they see that moves, whether it is a balloon or a dog. Hopefully it should be their mother as nature intended to insure their security.

I believe that snakes are just innately "afraid" of creatures of a certain height or more. Such as, fox, dogs, cats, birds, man, etc.
This is why I believe so many hatchlings strike right out of the egg and or soon after.
It is after all of the "conditioning" we do and memory of the snake that calms it.

I don't believe in emotions in the snake. It is curious. It moves this way or that way.
It may prefer one spouse due to lack of perfume or body odor or due to it. It may be conditioned "to" a scent so to speak, like that is safe.
And that is the bottom line, safe mode, or not? That is what the snake senses and crawls to check out. Not because it likes you.

It makes us feel good and justify ownership by saying "she likes me!"

[Billy29]

My argument is snakes like safe and if a snake feels safe with you than it likes you. I agree that a snake will never like you for you, only because you provide something.


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[JoshSloane]

Hey Billy29, I'm a scientist as well, getting my PhD in Neurotoxicology currently, have my masters in molecular and biochemical environmental toxicology also. Glad to see other scientists on here. When thinking about this issue as a neuroscientist, I look at the vestigial structure of the reptilian brain and say that snakes are capable of only basic 'emotions' like, "Im hungry, cold, too hot, thirsty, scared, angy etc," as those are the usual functionalities that we ascribe to the different parts of the brain that they do retain (medulla oblongata, amygdala). Due to reptiles not having a concerted and organized distinct cerebral cortex, most would consider reptiles incapable of having intricate thought processes of love, affection, and complex memories. However, they do retain basic structures in the dorsal region of the brain in a very primordial fashion, which can hint at what were first evolutionary steps towards a cortex. Meaning, while we can't directly identify a brain region that we dogmatically think of being associated with higher mammals capable of complex emotions, it doesn't mean that certain neuronal structures aren't capable of creating behavior that is similar. With this in mind we can rationalize that a snake is definitely able to make associations with certain objects, whether human or inanimate. Basically 'human means food' and 'human not predator.'

Now looking at this as a herper, rather than a scientist, I can say that I have seen reptiles do amazingly 'smart' things. Frequently we see a snake prefer to be handled by one sex over the other, or even one person over the other. Why is that? Is the snake recognizing actual physical characteristics? Or is the snake seeing different thermal signatures from individuals and prefers one to another? When it comes to lizards and monitors the debate gets even better. Tegus and many monitor lizards are capable of recognizing their individual owner and coming to them. Do they seek their owner out for affection, or just because they associate him/her with food? Ask many Tegu owners and they will say that their fully fed and satiated tegu will come up to them to be pet and held. There are plenty of youtube videos of people's black throat monitors laying on their owner and seemingly enjoying affection. While it is unlikely that we can anthropomorphize reptiles enough to have them actually craving our attention, it does seem like they are much more capable of bonding and having a sense of 'understanding' with their keepers.

[PinkPixie]

You both have very valuable points.. But I do tend to agree that a snake can be conditioned to trust as well,based o.n my own experience with my animals, yet they are still animals and I know at times I am over humanizing their responses to coincide with the emotions I am familiar with. Abigail, my pinstripe,for example, does strike out at my spouse in a fearful fashion, but happily crawls up my arm after being rudely awakened by yanking her hide off. She'stare at me a moment, give a great yawn, and then crawls right into my hand and up my arm. From there I either let her roam my desk, where she always ends up back my lap, or I set her free on my bed where she enjoys tunneling sheets only to eventually crawl her way up onto my chest. Once there she tucks her head in my Palm where I then gently stroke her skull and slender neck. Now most would assume she's just tolerating my touch, and I would agree if she had only done this once, but this is routine, would she not avoid resting her head in my hands, having the conditioning to know that I "WIL" touch her vulnerable area? I don't see snake as an actually showing affection per say, more like seeing us as a security blanket of sorts. But on that note, to bring down the snake gods on my head, I do handle my girls Dailey, which seems to increase their confidence not diminish it. Is it possible to love your security blanket? I don't know. Humans fall in love with their body guards all the time, But even if I strain I could only guess loose affection for lack of a better term.

Long story short, yes, I believe some sort of bond exists beyond the feeder/fed position. Or as I said, maybe I'm just over humanizing and relating my emotions to an animal who has a cunning similar to a Cat who will fake affection to get those tasty hand outs.

(I hope this makes any sense whatsoever, I'm sunning on little sleep and even less caffeine, but this post reeealllly caught my attention)

[Artemisace]

This is a very interesting topic and I'm sure will spawn a very passionate discussion. I'm no scientists and won't claim to be, I'm just a snake owner and reptile enthusiast. I can say that from experience at least my retics do show some sort of bond with me. They come right up to me when I open their cages and will even seek me out when I have them out exploring, either the house or the yard. I'll have to get video of it sometime but my sunfire girl will only go a short distance from me before coming back and crawling right into my lap. Now is this affection? I like to think so, but I know more than likely she's just more comfortable with me than out in an unknown place.
My bearded dragon on the other hand he might, he genuinely seems to enjoy contact with me. He will just sit with while I watch TV or clean his cage or whatever. I've heard of the lizards being slightly more "domesticated" but I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in that. Another interesting case is my pinstripe ball python, he's super head shy and twitchy with everyone but my friend Danni and me. And she's only held him a handful of times. So I don't know, I do believe they form bonds bit beyond that I'm not really sure.

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[DVirginiana]

I'm an ecologist, but my background is pretty heavy in psych and neuroscience, so hopefully I can be useful in this conversation.

In regards to memory, I don't think snakes have the capability to actively think of things that are not in their immediate vicinity/situation. Probably the most similar analogy I can think of for this is human infants lacking object permanence; they know mom when she's in the room, but if mom covers her face with her hands she suddenly disappears to them, and then reappears when she removes her hands (thus why peekaboo is so entertaining). I honestly think I cease to exist to my snakes when I walk out of the room, and begin to exist again when I walk back in. Now, my turtle seems to have some degree of object permanence, as I will often walk in to find her on her hind legs stretching to get a view of the door, which she would have no reason to do if she didn't believe I was going to walk back in through it.

I think as far as recognizing people it's almost all down to scent. It may be slightly different for constrictors than colubrids due to their ability to see thermal signatures, but I think scent is still the primary recognition mechanism there too; I'm basing this on the fact that my BP knows there's a rat around even when she's in her hide and my husband is out in the hallway with the rat. There's no way she could be sensing it's specific heat signature that far away.

For colubrids, I have the somewhat unique experience of having a snake who is completely blind; which is another example of learning through conditioning, as I had to teach him how to eat again as he was losing his sight. There's a very specific ritual I have to follow when feeding him, and if I vary it even slightly he will not eat. But back to recognition, he still recognizes me and is fine with me picking him up, but will absolutely lose his mind if anyone else goes into his tank. Having no ability to sense specific heat signatures, he has to be using smell to identify me.

[duckschainsaw]

I'm not a scientist or anything like that. Just an animal lover. My recent rescue snake, a very young pastel, seemed incredibly aggressive toward it's former owner. It would hiss and strike, and couldn't be handled by her at all. However I was able to reach into the cage and take the little one out, easily hold it and even rub it's head. I don't see why the snake would do that if it didn't recognize it's former owner in some way, and associate it with negative feelings. I don't think they have thoughts of love, or would really seek out affection, but the are pretty smart.

[DVirginiana]

I'm not a scientist or anything like that. Just an animal lover. My recent rescue snake, a very young pastel, seemed incredibly aggressive toward it's former owner. It would hiss and strike, and couldn't be handled by her at all. However I was able to reach into the cage and take the little one out, easily hold it and even rub it's head. I don't see why the snake would do that if it didn't recognize it's former owner in some way, and associate it with negative feelings. I don't think they have thoughts of love, or would really seek out affection, but the are pretty smart.

I'm not sure a snake would have the ability to associate neglect with a person; neglect being the absence of care rather than actively harming and badgering an animal. I just don't think they're complex enough to have a concept of a person's obligation to care for them, so they can't understand the concept of a person not caring for them. I do however think most snakes have a certain set of 'triggers' that will cause them to go nuts (coming straight at their face, picking them up from the wrong angle, pressure from below not being a problem but pressure from above typically causing a defensive reaction) and that people familiar with snakes instinctively avoid these triggers when handling them. This is why you can handle wild snakes without getting tagged if you play your cards right; it's all about not tripping those natural defense mechanisms. Someone neglecting a snake probably never bothered to learn how to actually act around them to avoid getting a bad reaction.
That's just my take on that anyway. I think initially handling a snake is down to how good you are at reading them, and that trust through conditioning is something that develops over time with a good owner. I agree though, they are smarter than most people give them credit for.