Growth Question

[ezcry4t3d]

I have rescued and kept several adult ball pythons over the last 30 years, I breed and feed my own live mice.
For the first time I actually bought a new baby to keep. A Fire Spinner (Fire Pinstripe Spider) named "Eight".



9/3/2014 Hatched
1/3/2015 Purchased 110g
3/3/2015 201g
5/2/2015 311g

Can someone tell me if this is a normal growth rate for a juvenile?

I'm currently feeding a mouse every 4 days, at what point can I move to weekly?

Is there some rule of thumb for juveniles weekly feeding size, so I know when to increase the numbers of mice? I know 60g/week for an adult is normal, but obviously juveniles need a higher rate.
ie, should my 300g snake be eating 20g/week, 30g, 40g?

[Mittens]

I believe every BP grows at a different rate. I've seen perfectly healthy yearlings at 1000+ grams and some that barely even break 600 grams. I think what most people on here will tell you is that as long as your BP is eating fine and not losing any noticeable weight, you're for the most part fine. I'm still new to the hobby so this is merely my observations while I was researching answers myself.

What I've researched in terms of feed size was, while they're younger, I think girth and size matters more than actual weight. This is again, pure observation of the information I had collected but weight is more of an important factor once they reach maturity. I think as long as you size up your rats/mice in relation to your BP's widest girth point, you should be fine.

Please feel free to chime in and correct me if my information is wrong though.

[Spoons]

I believe every BP grows at a different rate. I've seen perfectly healthy yearlings at 1000+ grams and some that barely even break 600 grams. I think what most people on here will tell you is that as long as your BP is eating fine and not losing any noticeable weight, you're for the most part fine. I'm still new to the hobby so this is merely my observations while I was researching answers myself.

What I've researched in terms of feed size was, while they're younger, I think girth and size matters more than actual weight. This is again, pure observation of the information I had collected but weight is more of an important factor once they reach maturity. I think as long as you size up your rats/mice in relation to your BP's widest girth point, you should be fine.

Please feel free to chime in and correct me if my information is wrong though.

I have always heard it backwards from this on these types of threads - that when they are young, weight is a good determining factor (10-15% of their body weight each week) but once they're older the weight thingi s thrown out the window in favor of girth. Of course, usually when they are young the girth will tend to match the body weight percentage anyways, so they're pretty much one in the same it seems! I've been feeding the 10-15% every week and my guy is growing like a weed.

[anicatgirl]

I always have fed mine by the girth rule *shrug*

That looks like a pretty decent growth pattern to me. I switched from 4 days to 7 once mine crested 400 grams. Some I know recommend switch at 300

[bondo]

They all grow at different speeds. So it is a hard question to answer. I have never weighed anything I have ever fed. I always go by the girth size. What size mice are you feeding? I am guessing adult size. He is around the size now where he will start really taking off in size. Will he take rats? I ask because it won't make him grow faster but will be easier to feed one rat in the future instead of multiple mice.

[couscous74]

I'm still new at this, but I am useless at guessing the girth of a snake. I do weigh them, so I know what their weights are.
I once thought two side-by-side frozen rat pups were about the same size. Decided to see which was heavier and was surprised that one weighed in at 30g, while the other was 22g. Since then, I decided to throw everything on the scale, since I am apparently also useless at guessing the size of a frozen feeder. This 10-15% guideline has worked out well for me.

[bondo]

I'm still new at this, but I am useless at guessing the girth of a snake. I do weigh them, so I know what their weights are.
I once thought two side-by-side frozen rat pups were about the same size. Decided to see which was heavier and was surprised that one weighed in at 30g, while the other was 22g. Since then, I decided to throw everything on the scale, since I am apparently also useless at guessing the size of a frozen feeder. This 10-15% guideline has worked out well for me.

Weight doesn't matter though the girth does. If one is 22 and one is 30 grams but the same size around then it doesn't matter. Rats are like snakes they come in different shapes. One can be skinny and long and one can be short and fat. Weight isn't the issue something too big in girth is the issue.

[ezcry4t3d]

First, thanks so much for all the responses.

Let me reiterate that I raise and feed my own live mice. I don't do rats for a couple reasons, because I have no idea what I'd do with a 300+g breeder female rat once it was past breeding age (I know my almost 2000 gram snake could take one, but it's not a battle I'd want to put her through). I have also seen rats aggressively attack a snake when offered as feed. It's not something I want to see again. I've never seen anything like that from mice. If you feed rats and that works for you, great, it's just not for me.

The mice I am feeding can be anywhere from 12g to 30g just depending on what my colonies have available. I'm still adjusting colony output to feed this new addition. Because I'm exclusively feeding mice, girth will never be an issue. Now that my smallest snake is above 300g there's no size mouse that will be too big girth wise.

That looks like a pretty decent growth pattern to me. I switched from 4 days to 7 once mine crested 400 grams. Some I know recommend switch at 300

Thanks for answering two of my questions here. I felt like I was getting pretty good growth, but I couldn't find any data online about growth rates to confirm that. It seemed to me that it was about time to try switching to weekly and you've confirmed that. It's gotten kinda annoying to have a snake on a different feeding cycle than weekly. I do wonder how little the breeder must have been feeding this snake for him to have only been 111g at 4 months old.

I've been feeding the 10-15% every week and my guy is growing like a weed.

This seems like the way to go with the juvenile snakes. I just went and divided up the feedings in my spreadsheet by month and looked at the total amount fed that month divided by 4 to get the weekly average and then compared it to his average weight for that month. Every month falls into the 10-15% fed per week range.


So the only question left is how do you know when to cut back to the slower adult feeding scale? 1yr? 2? At a certain size? Will they just start refusing feedings as their metabolism slows in adulthood, or will they happily eat their way into obesity?

[anicatgirl]

Thanks for answering two of my questions here. I felt like I was getting pretty good growth, but I couldn't find any data online about growth rates to confirm that. It seemed to me that it was about time to try switching to weekly and you've confirmed that. It's gotten kinda annoying to have a snake on a different feeding cycle than weekly. I do wonder how little the breeder must have been feeding this snake for him to have only been 111g at 4 months old.

I also wonder what the baby was being fed to be that weight. I am not sure of when to slow it down again, as I have not gotten there yet

[Tsanford]

Mine have consistent growth from 50 -160g a month. So that likes normal.