When does Force Feeding Become and Option?

[AngleusGabriel]

Hello again,

I had previously posted for help on feeding my ball python Nagini, which the only good advice given was not to preemptively soak your snake in water before a shed. With that advice she was able to get a perfect shed this time! So now that she shed this Saturday I would like to feed her tonight. If you want take the time to read the previous post I linked it. Read it only if you read it all unless you will post outdated stuff (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...feeding-advice).

For now though this is the overview. Nagini: roughly 2.2 year old female norm BP. I had received her from the previous owner 2 months ago, to which they had not fed her for 2 weeks. She has yet to eaten since. She has dropped from a weight of 720 grams to 630 grams during the past 2 months I have had her. I have had problems with husbandry early on, but those have been fixed for the past 3 weeks. I believe a recent perfect shed means that the husbandry is fine?

PROBLEM: Nagini has not eaten for 2.5 months. I think that she should be eating like crazy since she is so young. I have tried feeding her every week on Sunday since I got her except this last Sunday. I have tried live the first 4 weeks, switching to a frozen small rat the 5th, a frozen large mouse the 6th, frozen chick for the 7th, and skipping the 8th since she was shedding. Now this is the 9th week in which I have owned her and would like to try feeding again. Since the small rat and large mouse were slightly smaller than her width, I think I am going to try a medium F/T mouse this time. I think this might be a problem, my snakes temperament is more on the scared side, when trying to animate the F/T animals, she would simply approach and sniff the wiggling thing, only to back off in fear more or less. In every case of a F/T feeding I left the food in the cage for over night.

FAQs:
When do you feed?
Soon after she starts coming out to "explore her cage." Roughly 9 pm

Is the husbandry right?
80 deg cool, 92 deg hide UTH on hot side that is 86deg ambient, two water dishes, one for both hot and cool, 60% humidity.

Did previous owner have feeding probs?
No, he fed both live and frozen.

Any recent major changes in tank setup?
Not for past 3 weeks.

Did the live bite her?
No since I am supervising all feedings where the prey is living.

Is she sick?
No signs of sickness, RI, mites, and scale rot not showing if there.

Does she look healthy?
Yes, she looks healthy, ribs not visible.

Substrate?
Aspen shavings, switched from newspaper to help make new home like previous owners for security 3 weeks ago.

Do you play with her before a feeding?
No.

Feed in another container?
Told not to, so after 4th feed attempt never done again.

Are you going to really Force Feed?
Soon if she does not eat.


Force feeding, no one likes it, snake and owner, but I like a living healthy snake. Not one that seems to be starving itself during its teenage years of growing. She should be putting on weight and length at the moment. Which is hard to do without food. I have researched on how to force feed but I do not know the when. So for the replies to this post, please keep it to the when I should force feed the snake. I think once she hits 550 grams I will have no choice but to do so. At this rate (I have a log book of weights, feeding attempts, ect) I will be attempting a force feed in about two months. I am trying a smaller prey tonight so I hope that works. Any suggestions towards a better chance of her eating will be greatly appreciated as well.

[M.P.C]

Has all the food been the same color, its rare but ive heard of bp refusing certain colored prey items, have you tried braining the prey, ive also heard rubbing chicken broth/stock on the prey sometimes works.... i hope something changes i couldnt imagine going threw that with my 2 babies

[Rickys_Reptiles]

Force feeding should never, ever be done on an adult snake unless it is literally life or death.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Assist feeding or force feeding is a last resort solution that is done when everything else has failed, which includes, downsizing enclosure to the smallest one available in this case 15 quarts tub, along with other things, like NO handling, feeding the proper prey (rats or mice) and the proper size and preferably live (medium mouse are too mall and will likely not be recognize as prey) etc

It is far from unusual for animals that age to go off feed with their new owner I have had several adults that came into my care that cease to eat anywhere for 6 months to a year before resuming feeding with me.

The key is PATIENCE

[MarkS]

Force feeding should only be done if ALL other options have failed. Even then, sometimes it's just better to let them go peacefully to their reward.

Personally, I've never found force feeding to be all that effective, but sometimes it works.

What kind of cage? (sorry if this was covered already) If an aquarium, try covering all of the glass so that she is completely isolated.
2 1/2 months is really not that bad. I've had several go more then half a year before they started feeding.

[AngleusGabriel]

Personally, I've never found force feeding to be all that effective, but sometimes it works.

What kind of cage? (sorry if this was covered already) If an aquarium, try covering all of the glass so that she is completely isolated.
2 1/2 months is really not that bad. I've had several go more then half a year before they started feeding.

It's a young snake, 31" long 630 grams, that is why I think 4.5 months no feed might be the time to really consider force feeding.

It is an aquarium, it has a foil wrapped cardboard top (on top of the lid), dark teal paper is wrapped around 3 sides. When I do feed I throw a towel over the remaining open glass side for privacy except a slit if I am live feeding. So more or less she has her cage "isolated."

[AngleusGabriel]

Has all the food been the same color, its rare but ive heard of bp refusing certain colored prey items, have you tried braining the prey, ive also heard rubbing chicken broth/stock on the prey sometimes works.... i hope something changes i couldnt imagine going threw that with my 2 babies

Other than the chick, the mice/rat were white.

Braining, yet to do because I thought it was for baby snakes, but if that would help I can splice open a cranium (would need to be told the proper way to do so though).

Chicken broth, I would believe that but I tried feeding a chick to her. Since I have yet to try that I will do it next week if she DOES NOT ACCEPT this smaller pray item today.

Thank you for the suggestions.

[200xth]

I have had problems with husbandry early on, but those have been fixed for the past 3 weeks.

Sometimes it takes them a little longer to get situated again.

I personally wouldn't force feed her now. Way too soon, IMO. I'd probably just switch to offering her food every 14 days, offer her small food, and keep watching her weight.

She has dropped from a weight of 720 grams to 630 grams during the past 2 months I have had her.

You also said she shed for you. Did she poop when she shed? They usually do, and if so, that's where a big chunk of your weight loss went.

[M.P.C]

I know when i first tried feeding my fire ball python he wanted zero to do with the white mouse, but the fallowimg week he instantly went for the brown rat no problem thats the only reason i mentioned the color of prey. but as other have mentioned its not abnormal for them to go off feed periods of time but ive also only heard that being ok as long as they arent loosing much weight

[MarkS]

Are you sure it's a female? It's not uncommon for males to go off feed this time of year when they're more interested in mating.