Please Help I found a snake spinoff aka The great pine debate

[DVirginiana]

It's probably a more convenient option for many people and they haven't run into any problems with it. Like I said, I don't know enough about it's effect on reptiles to really get into the debate of whether or not to use it as a substrate.

[Skiploder]

Ad I stated I was by no means being rude. I was simply coming from a veterinary background. When I said "good" it was in quotes not to belittle anyone but to use a common phrase. I didn't want to say that anyone with reptile knowledge, or common sense was dumb If they used it. As far as about trekking through the woods. Pine shavings are by no means like pine needles. The milling process brings out the chemicals much more. Have you ever put up a Christmas tree and itched from it afterwards? That was caused likely by the chemical irritant I am referring too. Just as you shouldn't smoke, use heavy cleaners, or burn incense in the area of your reptiles because of the chemicals the same can be said about pine and cedar as they too have chemical irritants.

Have you ever visited a pine savannah? Have you seen how some animals, Louisiana Pines, Eastern Indigos actually burrow in resinous pine litter? Pine litter that is much more rich in phenols and resins than the heavily dried stuff sold as bedding?

So in that sense you are right, but not in the way you think....pine savannahs are much more "potent" in terms of the substances that you are ASSuming cause problems. The dried shavings you buy as bedding have had most of the phenols and just about all of the resins removed through various drying processes.

Leave cedar, patchouli oil and all that other crap out of the argument. We are talking about dried pine shavings sold as bedding.

Reptile Carpet....

[shaneswife828]

I have seen the problems first hand. So I am in no way "ASSuming". I have seen rabbits, rats, and other small animals come in with red bumps and half thir fur missing because of scratching so much from the pine. I have also seen snakes of many species come in with scales rubbed off their body because they had dumped their bowl of water onto the pine causing it to make the irritation so bad they rubbed against their hides and such so hard they actually rubbed scales off. Assuming would mean I was guessing and had no knowledge or experience. Because I am educated and have the knowledge and experience I would be giving an educated opinion not an assumption.

[Skiploder]

by the way ask some of the greats like Brian from BHB what they think of the use of pine. I'm pretty sure in one of his YouTube shows he said pine was not recommended.

You are making my day.

[shaneswife828]

cedar and pine are both sold as bedding. Cigarettes and alcohol are both sold also so because they can be purchased that must mean they are healthy Too. So by your thoughts anything sold for pets and people is "healthy or safe for use and consuption?

[Skiploder]

I have seen the problems first hand. So I am in no way "ASSuming". I have seen rabbits, rats, and other small animals come in with red bumps and half thir fur missing because of scratching so much from the pine. I have also seen snakes of many species come in with scales rubbed off their body because they had dumped their bowl of water onto the pine causing it to make the irritation so bad they rubbed against their hides and such so hard they actually rubbed scales off. Assuming would mean I was guessing and had no knowledge or experience. Because I am educated and have the knowledge and experience I would be giving an educated opinion not an assumption.

Brian Barczyk apparently recommends pine on his Twitter feed. For ball pythons no less! Did you ask me the BHB question because you had knowledge or were you making an ASSUmption?

Want me to ask some of the other "greats"?

Want me to ask if they've seen any scales rubbed off on hides because of pine?

Say "Reptile Carpet" for me.....one more time.

Tell me how good it is......

[Skiploder]

cedar and pine are both sold as bedding. Cigarettes and alcohol are both sold also so because they can be purchased that must mean they are healthy Too. So by your thoughts anything sold for pets and people is "healthy or safe for use and consuption?

You're going off the rails and are now stretching and reaching, stretching and reaching. The BHB gambit failed so we're now talking about cigarettes and alcohol?

BHB has weighed in. He apparently recommends pine but not repti-carpet.

[shaneswife828]

I was not saying repticarpet isf good. I said it's an option some will use when they have only one or two reptiles. You can call and ask a 100 people and I believe more would recommend against using pine. As far as BHB I seen a snake bytes episode where he mentions that pine is not a recommended substrate. If I wasn't on my phone and wasn't business cooking I would find the link. I have a feeling ur the type of person who thinks they are always right. Apparently someone who went to school and has veterinary knowledge is still way stupider than you could ever be. I am done with this post. I have better things to do than argue with the likes of you. I have kids to care for and rescue animals to tend too(yes my dumb ass has rescue animals and has saved hundreds of animals lives what a shock). To the OP good luck with your scaled baby and do what you feel is best. Don't let anyone bully you into doing what you feel is wrong.

[200xth]

If pine is considered bad by so many, why use it at all when there are so many other options?

Why do so many consider it bad? What experience do they have with it?

I use it because it works well, it's readily available, and my snakes do well on it.

[Skiploder]

Why do so many consider it bad? What experience do they have with it?

I use it because it works well, it's readily available, and my snakes do well on it.

That's it.

I'm done with you.

What the heck was this thread even about?