Stressed Snake??

[dante9909]

Hi, I recently got my 1 or 2 year old BP about 1 week ago from my local pet shop before buying it i went there weekly to see how it's doing and to see if it was a healthy snake and i trust their reptile expert. Before buying him he seemed fine just your average BP i brought him home put him in his terrarium and left him alone for 3 days handled him for 1 day attempted to feed him (live) and he ate just fine. now i handle him once a day but when i do it feels as if he is trying to get away from me, he mostly stays in his hide he's only moved around at night maybe 3 times and everytime he does it seems like he's trying to get out and when i go up to him he freezes and stays completely still for a minute then goes back to moving he's never hissed or tried to bite he's left 2 small clumps of urate but no poop since the last time i fed him which was the 6th of this month the temperature on his hot spot is 88.9 degrees F. and the ambient temp. is 80.1 degrees F. This is my 1st snake and i want to make sure im doing everything correctly the main thing that concerns me is that he hasn't pooped how he's always heading to the top of the terrarium as if he wants to get out, stopping and staying motionless when i go up to the cage to check on him and that it seems as if he doesn't want to be held. I would greatly appreciate some advice please and thank you so much

[kiiarah]

Congratulations on your new addition. It is definitely possible that he is stressed, but that isn't necessarily abnormal. I am relatively new to snake-keeping (only had my guy for a few months now) but I have done a lot of reading on stress and snakes. They can be so difficult to read when you are new to the hobby and I am the sort to worry constantly about how he is feeling and whether he is comfortable, I had to go on a weeks long information binge to calm my own nerves and picked up quite a few tips in the process. I do know that usually it is recommended to leave them completely alone for a week minimum. They can definitely be prone to stress and any change in environment will take some adjustment time. My boy has even had minor panic attacks just from a change of substrate, so it may just be that he is still a bit freaked out by the new surroundings.

It sounds like your temps are correct, but it may still be good to know how you are measuring. Ideally temps should be measured by a digital thermometer (the gauge type with the needle are notoriously inaccurate). If you aren't using one already, you can get a cheap digital Acurite all in one for humidity and temps. These are not designed for reptiles per se by they work great and are affordable for those just entering the hobby. If you are using a thermometer that you know you can trust then it sounds like that part of things is spot on. You should also of course be using a thermostat to make sure that the hot spot does not exceed or drop too far below a safe set point. If you are doing so already that is great. The main thing is to always double and triple check temps. Any equipment can fail, so it is best to confirm. If you want to skip a few steps you can pick up an infrared temperature gun, which is what most serious keepers recommend to ensure temps are perfect.

You said he is using his "hide" a great deal, does he have only one? Having only one hot spot can cause stress because it will limit his ability to thermoregulate while feeling secure. It is recommended that they have two identical hides (so they do not favor one over the other, sacrificing proper temperatures in the process), one on the hot side and one on the cool side. It could also be useful to see how his tank is set up. If the tank is too large it can leave them feeling over exposed and cause cage wandering and escape attempts. It isn't so much that the tank cannot be large (my boy is in a 30 gallon and happy as a clam) but just to make sure there is enough cover that they feel safe.

The fact that he is eating is a good sign, as that is often the first behavior to go when something is really wrong. As for not pooping yet, many ball pythons only poop about once every four weeks. This schedule will depend on how much food they are taking in, how fast they are growing, and individual metabolism so it could vary, but it doesn't sound like you have had him long enough to worry about it. If you ever feel like it has been too long, make sure you are not underfeeding (which would mean he is using all the food he is being given, with little waste left over). If he is eating the proper amount and you are concerned about a physical problem being the cause it is a good idea to feel gently around his vent to make sure there are no hard lumps that could indicate impaction. My boy just went about six weeks without pooping, but finally did right as I was starting to worry about it. He is still young and growing and is probably using more of the food he is given to convert to energy than an adult snake might. I just kept a close eye on him and checked him frequently for lumps that might indicate that he could not pass feces or urates but never felt anything out of the ordinary. Remember that they are cold blooded and have very slow metabolisms. They are all about energy conservation and live on a much slower timeline than we mammals do.

If you could post a picture of the set up and maybe give a bit more detail on husbandry (humidity, how temps are being measured and controlled, etc) we could think farther into the stress issue. It is likely that he is just settling in and the behaviour will subside soon, but just in case anything is slightly off that could slow that process it would be good to correct it now.

[dante9909]

Thank you for the info you provided me it's helping me be a little less worried about the situation. Thermometer i'm using is one that came with my cage which is just a little box with the temp and a cord with a probe at the end to get "precise" temperature i didnt trust it because it kept changing temperature from 80 to 95 but now it's remained at 88 i still dont trust it but it's all i have for now i ordered a digital thermometer that should be getting here in a few days or so i can check and see the heat sources is a zoomed under tank heater i tried using a basking light but it seems as if he doesn't like it in my opinion the temp on that reached 90 degrees F. he does have 2 hides one that came with the cage and another i made the one he uses most is on the hot side which is the one i made out of a small box he uses the other one but he doesn't actually "hide" he likes to climb on top of it. the tank is a 20 gallon long which i honestly thought was too small at first but after seeing him in there seemed fine but i could be wrong. i use the same bedding they had him in at the pet shop which is coconut fiber mixed with reptibark at the petshop though there were 3 other larger BP's in there with him and no hides. I am keeping him on his previous feeding schedule which is one small rat every 2 weeks they ran out the when i last fed him which was my 1st time feeding him so they recommended 2 mice either 1 mice a week or 2 at one time since he was on a small rat once every 2 weeks i decided 2 mice at once would be fine and sure enough he ate. i dont know how to upload pictures on i just signed up but i can leave a link to my cage setup http://instagram.com/p/xid1P1vmLr/?modal=true thanks again for your help i greatly appreciate it

[michaelt]

Try to cover up 3/4 sides of the tank it will help them feel more enclosed check out this link it will help you http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures!

How are you heating?

[dante9909]

im using a zoomed heat mat for my heating source and thanks for the advice i will do that

[michaelt]

im using a zoomed heat mat for my heating source and thanks for the advice i will do that

Are you regulating the UTH with a thermostat or dimmer? if you are not please unplug.. the risk for burn is too high.. ive seen those mats get as high as 115 degrees

[dante9909]

oh.. okay i'll do that luckily i have a basking light as a back up source of heat it doesn't surpass 90 degrees thankfully thanks again for the advice i greatly appreciate it

[kiiarah]

I guess it is possible that he dislikes the cave hide which could be why he was wandering. Maybe when the hot hide gets too warm he isn't comfortable using the other one and winds up just lying on it, which would also cause him to feel more exposed and therefore more stressed. If possible I would still get two identical hides, the cardboard one can't be sanitized and I guarantee he is going to poop or pee in it soon. My little one had two half log hides when I first got him, but one was a bit larger than the other one since they only had one of the right size left in stock. Oddly enough he preferred the larger, less secure hide, and would not go into the other one. This was only concerning because he was never going into his hot hide, even after a meal, and it is winter. I finally picked up two identical exo terra hides and now he moves between them regularly and just seems to be choosing his temperatures in a much more normal fashion.

I second the recommendation to unplug the heat mat if it is not being regulated. From what I have read, snakes have a hard time detecting heat on their belly and will often sit until they burn before they realize there is damage being done. Turning off the mat should only be a temporary measure until you can get a thermostat though, as belly heat is important for proper digestion. It is true that a snake can live with just a heat lamp, but then again snakes are hardy and have been known to live in some pretty deploarable conditions. They are great at hiding illness and many of the problems they encounter are internal so it isn't always clear that something is amiss until there is damage done. Improper digestion can lead to impaction, regurgitation, etc. They can tell if conditions for digestion are favorable and will refuse food, often for months, until they feel that they can eat safely. For a snake to digest their metabolism has to speed up quite a bit, and this takes warmth. The other thing to be aware of with heat lamps is that they will eliminate humidity from the tank, so it is especially important to monitor humidity. Excess misting over a long period of time can lead to things like belly rot, while keeping the environment too dry can cause respiratory infections and shedding problems.

I also second the suggestion to cover the back and sides of the tank to help him feel more secure. If done properly, this can also insulate against heat loss, which is a common problem people encounter with glass tanks. I used cardboard and bubble wrap and cut both to fit. I basically just used double sided tape to stick the bubble wrap to the cardboard and stuck it with more double sided tape so that the bubbles were facing in and touching the glass. I definitely noticed a reduction in heat loss by doing this.

Lots of people on here are using really expensive high quality equipment to monitor and regulate temps, but don't be intimidated by that. With a huge collection (or a breeding facility) it is not practical to have individual monitors in every tank and it is harder to keep an eye on things without lots of monitoring equipment. There are tons of mid range devices you can pick up that won't cost an arm and a leg and are perfectly fine to use with a small collection of snakes because you will be seeing the temp changes and everything daily.

This is the digital thermometer I use, it allows you to see the air temperature where the thermometer is placed, has a probe that can be run underneath the hot hide to read the temps on the glass where it is the hottest, and reads humidity. It is on sale right now for 13.00 here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and is what many keepers on this site recommend as a starting point. You can literally just glance over and see all the readings at once.

This is the thermostat I am using and it has worked great so far. This is another product that is recommended on this site at entry level. http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...9D24XEGRVCBWKR You basically place the probe against the bottom of the heat mat (never inside the tank) and it will read the temp of the mat. Then just set it to whatever temperature gives you the right reading on your inside probe from your thermometer. The temp you want to keep it set to will usually need to be a bit higher than you actually want, due to heat loss through the glass of the tank, but that is why you have the digital probe inside too so you can see what temp you need to set it to in order to keep the inside hot spot at 90 or so. This one is a bit pricier at 35.00 but is a necessary investment and the cheapest option that people have found to be reliable.

Your boy is adorable by the way, he looks very alert and curious.

[Skiploder]

In general, restless behavior is a sign of discomfort or stress.

Provide correctly for his husbandry needs - including security and privacy - and he should calm down.

Ball pythons can process their food throughout a range of temperatures - the most important temperature parameter you can nail down is the ambient temp.

[dante9909]

Thank you again for helping me out i really appreciate it i want to make sure im doing everything correctly. Im cutting out pieces of cardboard to fit inside the tank and i will go get bubble wrap once im done. the hides i could go and get some identical ones at my local petshop unless i have some spare plastic i containers i could use and turn into a hide for him. Thank you for links you sent me i will get the thermostat hopefully when i get paid this friday. I can't thank you enough for helping me out and giving me advice on the things i need and need to do to take good care of my boy. i hope to get everything i need asap