Thought I'd better introduce myself as things seem to be a bit shaky .

[Zincubus]

Hey .. I'm getting the distinct feeling of "unwelcomeness" in this forum for some reason ... Something I've NEVER come across in all my years of frequenting forums .

I've had a few 'biting' comments thrown my way since I ventured in here a few weeks ago and I really don't understand what the issue is .... I've admitted MANY times in here that I'm not an expert on anything but I have had many years of successful snake keeping .... I currently own 17 snakes of different types and in all my time I've never had a snake die on me . I had one with an RI many years ago and was lucky enough to be able to cure it myself by nebulising F10 for a couple of weeks.

Any advice I have suggested / posted has either been from my experiences or my friends .

Just think you need to cut the new guys a bit of slack .... I' m a real nice guy

Currently have .

1 Snow Boa - 7' adult - the featured Snow Boa in John Berry's Designer Boa Morphs .
1 Dwarf Hypo Burmese Python
2 HC Albino Royal Pythons ( unrelated pair )
1 Pastel Royal Python
1 Rhino- nosed rat snake
1 Red Mountain Bamboo rat snake.
I Imperial Pueblan Hybrid ( King x Milk)
1 Amel Stripe aduit Corn snake
1 Banded Cali King
1 Albino Striped Cali King
1 Desert King
4 Garter snakes ( I Melanistic 'Black' and 3 Albino Chequered Garters)


I have Aspergers ( form of autism ) and have worked in education for 19 years helping autistic teenagers to survive the torture of secondary / high school .

I'm a real nice guy ..honestly !!

Please excuse my obsessiveness any poor spelling / grammar ....it comes with Aspergers , sadly .

[Vypyrz]

Any advice I have suggested / posted has either been from my experiences or my friends .

Some people either forget, or fail to realize, that there are no "set in stone" rules to reptile keeping, and that most everything that is suggested, or recommended is based on someones experience, and they are quick to criticize any suggestion, recommendation, or opinion that is different, or not in keeping with the status quo.

It looks like you have a nice collection...

[Ransack]

How do you like the Garter snakes? I am thinking of getting some in the future?

Also don't sweat the people flipping out, everybody is an expert, lol.

Edit: If you are talking specifically about the soaking snake thread, really don't sweat it. I actually don't soak my snakes but if my snake is covered in crap, I'm washing it, not up for debate.

[Zincubus]

How do you like the Garter snakes? I am thinking of getting some in the future?

Also don't sweat the people flipping out, everybody is an expert, lol.

Edit: If you are talking specifically about the soaking snake thread, really don't sweat it. I actually don't soak my snakes but if my snake is covered in crap, I'm washing it, not up for debate.

Actually there's been a few times that I've felt a bit uncomfortable to be honest .. I wouldn't mind if I'd come in here all guns blazing , saying I was an expert but anything I've said or suggested was done in good faith with a view to help or share an experience . I just saw an undesirable pattern emerging . I won't stay where I'm not made welcome .
I've already decided not to post any advice or make any further suggestions as my confidence is simply not high enough to take any further criticism / questioning .

I'll just offer the odd opinion ( positive only ) on the various beaut snake pictures that regularly appear in here .

As to my Garter snakes I'm actuality reluctant to share my view on them to be honest . I'll keep it simple . They are real entertainers and seem to have no faults ..

[Running Elk]

Since you brought it up...

This is coming from a recent post of yours, the tone of which really got under my skin. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm going to go out on a limb here based on what I observed. I saw this post and wanted to reflect a bit.

It's not that you come off as pretending to be an 'expert'. It's acting morally superior because you don't agree with some of the practices other people use. It's okay to disagree, but when you come in, guns blazing, calling people out for being 'morally inferior' because they don't do things the same way as you, you're only going to make enemies, even from people who do agree with you. Talking of "lowering yourself" to practices that you know many people use, and then chalking it up to cultural inadequacy is a very strong notion that is going to GREATLY upset a lot of people.

For example, I feed frozen as much as I can to any of my snakes who will take frozen, which is currently all of them. Some of my newer snakes have come to me eating live, and I have to work them over to frozen -- usually starting with live (if I really have to), then pre-killed (from a spinal dislocation, which seems to be the fastest method -- I think thumping and gassing are less ethical methods), and then to frozen. I raise show mice and have had most types of rodents available in the pet trade at some point or another -- so I value rodents as animals. I do think feeding frozen is a better option in many ways, personally. Had your 'debate' on the issue been simply that -- a constructive debate, asking people politely why they choose to feed live in order to come up with answers/feedback to your questions concerning cultural differences that DO exist, I might have sided with you, seeing as I feed frozen at all costs and have worked painstakingly to convert all of my snakes to frozen. But when you come in accusing people of being lesser than you, and being somehow morally inept, I can't side with you on account of the rudeness and arrogance.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but use some tact. Humble your voice. That's how you get respect.

A lot of the people in this forum are American. Our animal ethics are culturally different than European animal ethics. It's just a different culture, for better or for worse. A lot of reptile people are conservative, perhaps partially because the AR movement here is associated with being far-left (somehow -- some of us lefties still keep animals and understand the different between animal welfare and animal rights. Any good keeper cares about the welfare of their animals -- most/all of the people on this forum have a deep love and respect for snakes that brings us together so that we can learn, teach, and share our passion). This is going to make the reception of judgmental-sounding AResque rhetoric even more negative. We're (Americans) fighting a loosing battle against policies that want to essentially outlaw any pet except cats and dogs, pretty much. Opening a very condescendingly worded thread about 'morally inferior' animal welfare practices is going to irritate a red-hot rash that already exists -- not a good idea. Save your judgmental anti-live feeding rant for the Irish forum. People (Americans) are sensitive to that kind of lingo, because here the same people that spout that rhetoric also support things like the Lacey Act. With the mass banning of reptiles being a constant threat, coming on here with AR rhetoric is going to cause tension -- as the reptile community is currently the most at risk from proposed ignorant AR policies.

I am autistic as well. I understand how difficult it is to communicate with other people in a way that's not rude or awkward. I understand that you probably don't think you're being rude, but you are. Tact is something I've had to learn and still struggle with, so I get it -- I honestly do. But if you want to feel welcome, ask questions that aren't loaded, get to know people, and respect that husbandry practices differ slightly among different cultures and different keepers. You don't have to like the practices that everyone here uses, but understand that we all have the utmost interest in our animals' welfare and success, even if our methods vary from person to person. This should be a place to share our passion and expertise/experience, as well as a safe place to ask questions and not feel judged.

If you're seriously inquiring as to the hostile/cold reception you perceive getting from members here, I hope that this post helps you.

[M.P.C]

welcome to the forum again. after reading threw that frozen vs live debate you started running elk is 100% correct, you CANNOT come onto a forum to start a discussion and then talk down to everyone that dosent side with your point of view.... thats going to get alot of people against you real real fast and then you have no one to blame but your self not everyone else for taking offense to the way you were talking to and down to them, one should NEVER start a discussion about anything if they arent open to the other side of the discussion

[Zincubus]

Well ..... To be fair I have already apologised for any rudeness , inconsiderate comments or misunderstandings - in the appropriate threads .
As I mentioned , I have never and could never hurt any creature and just find live feeding abhorrent . It is clearly partly a cultural thing as well as a personal issue . I've also mentioned above that I'm Autistic and sometimes run into bits of bother on many other forums .... being obsessive and having pretty extreme views on just about everything is clearly part of the issue .

Also the other day I promised to avoid any of the existing and any NEW threads concerning LIVE feeding and I have stuck rigidly to my word .

[Zincubus]

welcome to the forum again. after reading threw that frozen vs live debate you started running elk is 100% correct, you CANNOT come onto a forum to start a discussion and then talk down to everyone that dosent side with your point of view.... thats going to get alot of people against you real real fast and then you have no one to blame but your self not everyone else for taking offense to the way you were talking to and down to them, one should NEVER start a discussion about anything if they arent open to the other side of the discussion

Part of my problem is clearly the way I phrase things in text as I am absolutely fine, face to face with somebody .

I also don't mean to " talk down " to anyone ..... I'm known for treating everyone equal in life and I'd treat the poor homeless guy sat begging in the town exactly the same as I'd treat my best friend ...

[Asherah]

You don't happen to be Sheldon Cooper in disguise as a snake owner do you? These threads are Big Bang Theory-ish.


I've been watching things unfold quietly from the sides and feel like coming out of my lurking status.

In all seriousness just take a step back and give yourself a moment to reflect and gather yourself. You have a condition that makes it difficult for you to catch the tone of a conversation so therefore it makes it doubly important that you really evaluate and think about what your saying. You are aware of this condition, but it seems as if you are using it as a catch all excuse for behaving badly rather than taking responsibility for the issues. Your comments are in general lacking empathy and totally refusing to see anyone else's side of the conversation. That doesn't make it a debate that makes it you ranting about a cause that you have suddenly turned into a "holier than thou" trip.

You don't agree with live feeding? Great, don't feed live, but that doesn't mean that others will choose to do the same thing you did. It does not give you the right to belittle people for their choices.

You feel you are being attacked. Terribly sorry about that sensation, but you must also take some responsibility for that, considering the comments you also made. Some of those were not very nice either.

I'm not saying you are totally in the wrong, you were trying to start a debate that didn't go so well, but you aren't totally in the right here either.

[John1982]

A forum would be entirely boring if everyone shared the same opinions. That said, it seems like you've already pinpointed the problem in your posts. You just have to work on that delivery a bit because we're ALL mere mortals here.

and I've NEVER had lower myself to feeding LIVE !

As live is an acceptable option for folks in the states it's going to remain a viable suggestion for getting people's snakes to feed. I think you would make a valuable asset for offering advice on getting those snakes to take f/t if you can do it without belittling others while pushing your agenda. It sounds like it was unintentional though so maybe just work on not getting so defensive. If a lot of folks are getting heated about something you say maybe it's a clue for you to go back and reread it a couple times.