Is this a het red pastel?

[jplehmann]

She's about 3 months old, and 88 grams, and a little less than 20". I bought her last weekend at a reptile show from a smaller? breeder (50 snakes). He told me her parents were a Male Gargoyle and Female Pewter, and that she's a "Het Red x Pastel".


1. I've searched on the internet a little and while I see quite a few "het red" combinations, none of them are "het red pastel". (e.g. on worldofballpythons.com). That troubles me a little. Is this a valid combo? Most seem to have Axanthic in the name.
2. Mainly, what kind of morph is she?
3. I bought her mostly for a pet, but I'm also curious if she'd make a good breeding snake based on the combinations she could produce.

thanks!

[Mr.Spence]

Het. Red and Het. Red Axanthic are the same thing.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...anthic-pastel/

[PitOnTheProwl]

According to what you said the parents are.......... There is no het red in that mix.
Pastel yes but het red no.
Who was the breeder?

[PitOnTheProwl]

Im thinking black pewter but not positive.
Still would like to know how the het red got mentioned or in the mix.

[Mr.Spence]

According to what you said the parents are.......... There is no het red in that mix.
Pastel yes but het red no.
Who was the breeder?

I believe some people just label like looking animals as gargoyle. Isn't the onyx black pastel x het. red and essentially the same in appearance. I believe cinnie x het red, and cinnie x green pastel all produce a "gargoyle" type animal.

[jplehmann]

The two differences I see with the het red axanthic pastel is a) her yellow spots are not very yellow, much more muted, closer to monochromatic. b) those seem to have a the unbroken back where she has quite a bit of spotting across the back.

Some of the black pewter pics do look like the closest I've seen, like this one:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/files/morphs/black-pewter/004.jpg
Though she does have a reddish tone.

Regarding no "het red" in genes, I was thinking the same thing based on the morph calculator: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wi...4&female=40,32

The breeder is Klayton Mai, a part-time guy in Dallas: https://www.facebook.com/cagedconstrictors
Should I follow-up with him and ask where the het-red came from, and maybe what the parents of the supposed Gargoyle were?

Guys thanks for helping figuring this out.

[PitOnTheProwl]

I would ask the breeder. Yes
I have seen too many people hatch clutches and the go to google looking for stuff that looks close to whats in the egg.

Edit....... If the male was the garg he has on his FB page Im kind of torn on it.
Could be a cinny X red but in his clutchs that he shows he doesnt show any cinnys at all but does have black pewters.

[aalomon]

I know Im repeating some of whats been said, but Ill still throw in my $0.02.

She's about 3 months old, and 88 grams, and a little less than 20". I bought her last weekend at a reptile show from a smaller? breeder (50 snakes). He told me her parents were a Male Gargoyle and Female Pewter, and that she's a "Het Red x Pastel".


1. I've searched on the internet a little and while I see quite a few "het red" combinations, none of them are "het red pastel". (e.g. on worldofballpythons.com). That troubles me a little. Is this a valid combo? Most seem to have Axanthic in the name. Het red and het red axanthic are the same thing. Its like people referring to their morphs as a bee instead of a bumblebee or a pied instead of piebald.

2. Mainly, what kind of morph is she? She looks exactly like a pastel het red axanthic to me. You get a bit of that rusty color with pastel het reds a lot. I dont see anything that says pewter or black pewter.

3. I bought her mostly for a pet, but I'm also curious if she'd make a good breeding snake based on the combinations she could produce. I would say so. There are still a lot of het red axanthic combos to make. Id give her a little time to see how the pastel gene in her holds up. Pastel genes really take a hit from het red genes, so you should expect that she will be a darker snake.

thanks!

Ill also add (coming from my limited experience buying, breeding and producing het red combos), that the two names being commonly used are gargoyle for cinnamon x het red combos and onyx for black pastel het red combos. I have very rarely seen a cinnamon x het red labelled as "cinnamon het red" and I have NEVER seen a lace black back x black pastel being labeled as a "gargoyle". All the gargoyles Ive seen for sale have been cinnamon x het red. Until today I didnt even know WOBP had a gargoyle labeled as something other than a cinnamon het red!

[PitOnTheProwl]

Until today I didnt even know WOBP had a gargoyle labeled as something other than a cinnamon het red!

This has always been my complaint in our world. Everyone wants to make a name for themselves so they wind up with names that cause problems like this.

[aalomon]

Personally I dont think "making a name for yourself" has anything to do with what happened with gargoyles. I just think there was a general mix up somewhere. Lace black back is not a common gene at all compared to cinnamons, and I think youd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a lace black back combo vs a cinnamon combo.