Expert advice for a new Ball Python owner

[PitOnTheProwl]

Great information!! Thank u so much online right now placing an order from reptile basics Just to make sure I got this right... I plug the VE200 into my subterranean heater. Then place the probe inside the tank on the heating pad. Does the probe have a wire that I have to run outside the tank? That may cause a but of an issue when trying to close the tank. Wireless would be awesome! Do they have those?

No, negative................
The probe goes between the UTH and the glass on the outside. Never inside.

[Tiffanie]

Agreed, there is absolutely no evidence that rats are any more or less nutritious then mice. Feed your snake whatever it's willing to eat.

Love threads for this purpose... You learn so much and get some great hints. Thanx!! I was hoping to switch him to frozen mice. Any suggestions for that transition? Also, one hopper one a week should continue until what age/size? Boston was born July 4th and has been eating live hopper move every week since hatch. Thank u again for the advice

[Tiffanie]

No, negative................
The probe goes between the UTH and the glass on the outside. Never inside.

That's not the best news as my heating pad is already stuck to the tank. Says on the packaging that its not to be removed. Hmmm ... Think I will screw up the pad by sticking this probe into it?

[PitOnTheProwl]

Probably. The other option would be to tape the brobe to the bottom of the UTH. You will not get as accurate of an internal temp but with the use of a no contact thermometer you can adjust to work.
A lot of people wont like yhis idea and I will tell you ...... What works in my house might not work in yours.
It has worked here.

[CryHavoc17]

Love threads for this purpose... You learn so much and get some great hints. Thanx!! I was hoping to switch him to frozen mice. Any suggestions for that transition? Also, one hopper one a week should continue until what age/size? Boston was born July 4th and has been eating live hopper move every week since hatch. Thank u again for the advice

You want to feed something that is about the same size as the widest part of the snake once a week. A good size meal will live a mild, but noticable lump in the belly. If you arent getting much of a lump then its time to move up. Most baby bps are able to eat full grown adult mice within a couple of months. This is the main reason the rat suggestion came up. Within a short period of time a single adult mouse will not be an adequate meal for you snake, and its just easier to feed a single appropriately sized rat once a week then 3 or 4 mice.

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[CryHavoc17]

That's not the best news as my heating pad is already stuck to the tank. Says on the packaging that its not to be removed. Hmmm ... Think I will screw up the pad by sticking this probe into it?

I dont want to give bad advice, or second guess the manufacturers instructions. So I will just say thay ive taken them off and re applied them once or twice without issue, BUT im sure their is a reason the manufacturer doesnt recommend that. The only reason I bring it up is because itd be better to take it off to use a thermostat then leave it unregulated, or just stick the thermostat probe in the tank. You dont want the probe in the tank because the snake can and will knock it around, poop and pee on it, ect. You need a thermostat ASAP. Ive measured brand new UTHs In excess of 160 degrees Fahrenheit running unregulated. This is not a short or failed unit, that was the temperature the unit was designed to achieve when ran unregulated, which the manufacturers claim to be ok

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[bcr229]

That's not the best news as my heating pad is already stuck to the tank. Says on the packaging that its not to be removed. Hmmm ... Think I will screw up the pad by sticking this probe into it?

I made this mistake my first setup also. You can usually peel back a corner of the heating pad without damaging it, put the t-stat probe under the corner far enough to get a good reading, and then tape the pad back into place around the t-stat probe.

[fcon]

Negative.
Feed what your snake will eat.

This is great advice, however when your BP is fully grown you will potentially be feeding him multiple mice per week which will cost £/$. Although BPs generally will eat rats some are very fussy and will just decide to prefer mice (some wont even eat mice). If you can it will be better and easier to get your young BP on to rats as early a poss to get them into habit of taking rats. I (and all the BP breeders I know) always feed rats from the beginning to try to eliminate the potential problems down the line.

Of course feed what the BP will take, however it is known that rats are more protein rich. Rats are obviously larger than mice and are known to have a higher fat content, with larger internal organs, it seems that young BP have mega (healthy) growth spurts once changed over to rats. However saying that, an adult mouse will be more calcium dense than a juvenile rat because it is fully grown, but if you are feeding calcium sups then this can be useless info. It is good to note that adult mice will have significantly higher calcium as well as phosphorus and magnesium levels. The young rat will however have greater zinc and iron levels than the adult mouse. But again...if you are supplementing your BP then this info is a complete waste of time LOL. Also it is good to note that the nutritional levels of Rat vs Mice is changed again depending on weather you feed live or frozen as freezing any kind of food will alter it nutritious value.

The argument of Rat vs Mice is a long and discussed subject and of course at the end of the day it falls down to what the BP prefers and if you as the owner will be ok at feeding multiple mice per week when you could just feed the one rat. (yes rats are more expensive but again it is up to the BP owner and each owner will need to weigh up the costs of where they can locate the rodents) Personally for me it is cheaper for me to feed the one rat per week and I like to handle my BP a couple of times a week so if you do feed your BP a couple times a week you are potentially limiting your time to handle it ... significantly.

[PitOnTheProwl]

I (and all the BP breeders I know) always feed rats from the beginning to try to eliminate the potential problems down the line.

What problems do "we" as breeders that start all our hatchlings on hopper mice cause down the line?
Your statement that I would like an answer to.

Of course feed what the BP will take, however it is known that rats are more protein rich. Rats are obviously larger than mice and are known to have a higher fat content, with larger internal organs, it seems that young BP have mega (healthy) growth spurts once changed over to rats. However saying that, an adult mouse will be more calcium dense than a juvenile rat because it is fully grown, but if you are feeding calcium sups then this can be useless info. It is good to note that adult mice will have significantly higher calcium as well as phosphorus and magnesium levels. The young rat will however have greater zinc and iron levels than the adult mouse. But again...if you are supplementing your BP then this info is a complete waste of time LOL. Also it is good to note that the nutritional levels of Rat vs Mice is changed again depending on weather you feed live or frozen as freezing any kind of food will alter it nutritious value.

You seem to forget that you have to break the values down to equal weights......
The only thing correct here is a slight loss in value from freezing.

[fcon]

What problems do "we" as breeders that start all our hatchlings on hopper mice cause down the line?
Your statement that I would like an answer to.


You seem to forget that you have to break the values down to equal weights......
The only thing correct here is a slight loss in value from freezing.

I didnt say YOU or BREEDERS cause any problems down the line. Just that the BP may not take rats when adults.... again it depends on the BP owner if they want to feed multiple times a week or not.

If you research online you will come up with multiple cases of educational research in the nutritional aspects of rats and mice. But as I said in my previous post if the BP owner is supplementing their BP then all this nutritional info is worthless as the majority of there BP nutrition is coming from the sups.