help with a new BP "rescued" from petsmart?

[sanrixian]

hey guys, long time lurker first time poster.

I currently own two snakes, a male woma morph ball python (chubbs) from eclipse exotics (donna is amazing!) and a male cornsnake (thorn). Both are very spoiled and much loved.

I work in a space that is connected to a mall with a petsmart and i go there to buy my crushed walnut shell bedding and sometimes vines or other decor if i don't feel like making it myself. I always visit all the snakes since i'm there pretty frequently, i also have a friendly little Pomeranian. Now i don't support how petsmart houses their animals, and i definitely don't want to seem rude, deeming or start any kind of debate with this post, i just would like some guidance from those more experienced than me in hopes that i can rehabilitate this lovely young girl i saved.


this is her. I'm calling her Hera. I know one of the attendants at the store pretty well, and has been talking to me about this lady for a couple months. Apparently this snake has been at the petstore since july 2nd and she was a lot larger than the others that they normally get. When i came in on tuesday to get some shampoo for my dog, i saw she was housed with two hatchling males in an approx 1 ft x 1 ft x 1ft enclosure. I asked to see her and i couldn't put her back. She immediately hid her head under her body and i could see how much her spine was protruding, there is a definite "crest" that can be easily felt and her belly feels sunken in. My other bp is a male, so for a minute i was wondering if this was just a difference in the sexes, but after talking to the attendant i know this cannot be a normal thing. She has apparently only been eating pinkies, if she eats and they had no feeding information, weight information or any other information on her. The attendant told me she ate a mouse pinkie august 1st, but hasn't shed since she has been with them. i weighed her as soon as i got her home, she's at 160g, and physically bigger than my male and older who currently weighs 189g.

(excuse the adult mice there. )
i couldn't wait anymore than 2 days after rehoming her to attempt to feed her because i was worried about her condition. I sat with her for an hour roatating between these two f/t mice and reheating them and then repatting and drying them off. She uncurled after about 15 minutes and sniffed but wouldn't strike. My boy misses all the time and then it usually takes him about 20 minutes to eat cause he has a tendancy to grab the middle of the mouse and have to work his way to the head (haha!). Anyway, after she spread out i snapped this photo so i could log her body progress. I placed her back in her enclosure and left her alone with one of the mice. I came back a couple hours later and the mouse was gone, so at least she ate a bit.

So i guess my question would be what are some tips on getting a snake in this condition to a healthy weight? should i feed her more than every 5 days? she's currently in quarantine on paper towels even though no mites are visible and i have a vet appointment scheduled for next week.

thanks for reading, please help me help this little princess :)

[zachbinger]

Get her on rat pups they help pack on the weight and size

[zachbinger]

She could probably take crawlers a hatchling can take fuzzies to pups

[alan12013]

I think every 5 days will be fine but I personally would not let her skip a meal and I would switch to rats as I believe they have more nutrients then mice. She is a beautiful python and I bet after a few meals you will start to notice a difference. PETCO recently got me with a corn snake the same way you were had. It's hard to turn down a sick snake when it's in your hands.

[sanrixian]

i need to research the difference between mice vs rats but i've heard that before too. i ordered a *lot* of mice for my cornsnake from rodentpro.com, so that's the only reason i've been feeding mice. Plus i can't seem to find any local pet stores or suppliers who sell anything but the brand "artic mice" which only sells small or large frozen rats. Live feeding isnt out of the question thought not preferred (i had to do it once for my cornsnake cause he threw a hissy fit in april when my male bp arrived. felt terrible gave the mouse a carrot and some crackers and cried the whole way home from the petco. they only have one size of mice and the little turd bit me when i got him out of his box...)

is there a directory or anyway of finding suppliers of f/t rats on this site or anything? how do you all go about sourcing food? i'm located in the kc area of missouri.

[alan12013]

I'm starting to breed them myself. My bedroom closet is set up as a rat breeding facility lol. Until my rats start popping out babies I am paying 8 dollars a rat and 13 rats a week, it's getting expensive. There are obviously cheaper ways such as ordering online like you do for your corns though. Maybe you could try posting an add on craigslist asking for cheap rats?

[CptJack]

If you have a local, privately owned petstore you may be able to trade some of your mice for rats of the appropriate size. When I bought a TON of mice for my BP then realized that was a bad idea, my local shop did that for me. It was fewer rats, yes, but for zero dollars upfront.

That said, I feed my corn rats. I feed her less frequently than I would with mice, but I find life easier when everyone is eating at least CLOSE to the same food. So right now the only one eating any kind of mice is the baby calking, and he's only up to fuzzy mice. As soon as I can switch his happy little butt, I will.

(My corn is about 600 grams. One BP is 1100, the other is 700. They ALL just eat small rats.)

[Dezul]

Lllreptile has all sized rats for sale. Okay prices but they have them and will ship to your door.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

First I would not recommend rat at this point, the first thing you want to do is have her to eat for you.

Because of the picture I assume that you feed outside the enclosure? So next time offer in the enclosure.

I would also suggest a live mouse (f/t right now is not a priority)

You need to let that animal settle in her new enclosure for a week during that time, no handling.

When you will switch to f/t don't mess around with the prey dropping them picking them up and reheating them, offer with tongs and only let go if the snake strike and coil. If it does not happen leave the prey in the enclosure overnight.

Based on info given about your other snake my guess is that the prey is not warm enough.

Finally how big is your enclosure and can you give details on your husbandry?

[sanrixian]

First I would not recommend rat at this point, the first thing you want to do is have her to eat for you.

When you will switch to f/t don't mess around with the prey dropping them picking them up and reheating them, offer with tongs and only let go if the snake strike and coil. If it does not happen leave the prey in the enclosure overnight.
Based on info given about your other snake my guess is that the prey is not warm enough.

She has eaten, one adult mouse which she did eat overnight in her enclosure. Thanks for the tips on feeding as far as the striking/coiling goes; sometimes they just slip off my tongs, heh. I keep two jars of water, one lukewarm in which the mice are defrosted in and another with just under boiling water and then heat them up until they feel warm, but not burning, kind of like i would make a baby's bottle if that makes sense. Would you recommend temping them?

Finally how big is your enclosure and can you give details on your husbandry?

Right now i have her in a 2ft wide 3.5-4 foot long and approx 1 foot high enclosure. She has a warm side hide and a cold side hide which i bought from petsmart trying to match what she had, a jungle vine and leaf for additional cover/enrichment. She is located on the wall opposite my two boy's tanks, with filtered sunlight throughout the day. The room is quiet and i am the only one who goes in and out. I've changed her water twice since posting this since she seems to have a liking of knocking it over but other than that i have let her be. Her warm side temp is at 87-95 at the highest and her coldside only drops as low as 82. Her humidity level is about 50% (i just checked and it was at 52%, was about 60% earlier). Her tank is made out of glass with a wire mesh top; i keep humidifiers running all day in my "snake room" to ensure humidity. During sheds they run 24/7. So far this has worked ok for me, though i plan on making my permanent enclosures for my bps not mesh topped.

Basically she has enough in her environment not to feel to small for it, and its maybe a little more on the small side rather than the large.

Also, i do feed outside the enclosure, each snake has their own "upcycled" drawer from one of those plastic sets of drawers that i've removed and cleaned. I've always read its advised to feed outside of the enclosure because of the association linked with the feeding time and feeding place. Would you reccomend feeding in enclosure just to ensure she eats?

thanks for all your help everyone, i feel so much better knowing that i have you all as such a valuable resource.