Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

[Crotalids]

I said if I would have to assume if you're referring to what I said. Also a monocoled cobra isn't the same as a king cobra. King Cobra's aren't Naja's but are Ophiophagus'. I've personally never dealt with them, but I know a guy who has one and I do spend some time admiring it every once in awhile and just it being more alert than other snakes which is why I said what I did. It's nothing to do with it being able to hood, which all it's doing in reality is flattening out that part of the body. In fact hooding I wouldn't even call a sign of intelligence, that's more or less it trying to appear bigger as to intimidate whatever they've encountered. A hooded cobra can only strike down as well, so if you were to go above it's head you could pat it on the head. I know this because I've done it before.

It was inspired by what you said, but I was talking in general terms, as everyone seems to assume Cobras are more intelligent.

I'm well aware of the fact Kings aren't true cobras, thanks for the taxonomic lesson.

I think you misunderstood my point about hooding, completely. The fact they hood up, is one reason why people think they're more intelligent. As if they're looking deep into your eyes, trying to find some deeper meaning with regards to the situation they're faced with...

I hear it time and time again, for example "The way they look at you, you just know there is something going on behind those eyes".

Also you talk absolute rubbish. A hooded cobra can strike upwards, if you had any real experience you'd know this. I have on countless occasions witnessed my Cobras, jump upwards and strike from a hooded position.

You can see it here in a friends video: http://youtu.be/ZCjFEmc-HpU

[Neal]

It was inspired by what you said, but I was talking in general terms, as everyone seems to assume Cobras are more intelligent.

I'm well aware of the fact Kings aren't true cobras, thanks for the taxonomic lesson.

I think you misunderstood my point about hooding, completely. The fact they hood up, is one reason why people think they're more intelligent. As if they're looking deep into your eyes, trying to find some deeper meaning with regards to the situation they're faced with...

I hear it time and time again, for example "The way they look at you, you just know there is something going on behind those eyes".

Also you talk absolute rubbish. A hooded cobra can strike upwards, if you had any real experience you'd know this. I have on countless occasions witnessed my Cobras, jump upwards and strike from a hooded position.

You can see it here in a friends video: http://youtu.be/ZCjFEmc-HpU

Clearly you misunderstand what I said. I said they can only strike downwards, I never said anything about not being able to jump upwards. Any snake can lunge which is what that snake did. I also never said there's anything more behind those eyes. I said they're more alert. They will spend quite a more significant time watching you than other snakes, or at least this has been my experience. This is the case with my Rufous beaked and my ball pythons. My rufous beaked will sit with it's head on the ledge of the glass and watch me. If I move it'll reposition itself so it can see me. It doesn't do this all the time but it does it frequently enough.

But back to the hooded comment. I don't keep cobras but like I said I've pat one on the head once before, so if you had any real experience you'd understand how often they actually lunge. They didn't lunge on the first attempt in that video, only after irritating it did it lunge. That's the difference. It won't just jump randomly on the first time. I'd probably guess that a lot of the time those first bites are dry just to scare something off.

The reason I said about mambas is because if I'm not mistaken they're the only snake that doesn't do dry bites. When they bite they inject venom, every time.

EDIT:
Also if you pay attention to the body in that slow motion replay you can see he unhoods while striking. Maybe not all the way but clearly he does. Don't pay so much attention to the strike as to his body. This is not to mention that it's chasing food and not defending itself.

EDIT #2:


Another instance of one lunging, or technically it sped up the log but yea all the same.

[Crotalids]

Clearly you misunderstand what I said. I said they can only strike downwards, I never said anything about not being able to jump upwards. Any snake can lunge which is what that snake did. I also never said there's anything more behind those eyes. I said they're more alert. They will spend quite a more significant time watching you than other snakes, or at least this has been my experience. This is the case with my Rufous beaked and my ball pythons. My rufous beaked will sit with it's head on the ledge of the glass and watch me. If I move it'll reposition itself so it can see me. It doesn't do this all the time but it does it frequently enough.

But back to the hooded comment. I don't keep cobras but like I said I've pat one on the head once before, so if you had any real experience you'd understand how often they actually lunge. They didn't lunge on the first attempt in that video, only after irritating it did it lunge. That's the difference. It won't just jump randomly on the first time. I'd probably guess that a lot of the time those first bites are dry just to scare something off.

The reason I said about mambas is because if I'm not mistaken they're the only snake that doesn't do dry bites. When they bite they inject venom, every time.

EDIT:
Also if you pay attention to the body in that slow motion replay you can see he unhoods while striking. Maybe not all the way but clearly he does. Don't pay so much attention to the strike as to his body.

Whether it's jumping upwards or not, it struck upwards - simple. They're capable of striking in an upwards direction if they want to.

How often they lunge? That depends entirely on the cobra. You cannot tarnish them all with the same brush. There are plenty of cobras that will lunge straight off, forget about on an individual basis, it changes day by day!

I like how you nonchalantly say you "pat a cobra on the head"..sounds like a troll. Have any proof? Not that it's something to be proud of.

All venomous snakes have the ability to deliver a dry bite. Whether or not they do 0%, 50%, or 100% of the time, cannot be tested in a reliable manner.

[Neal]

Whether it's jumping upwards or not, it struck upwards - simple. They're capable of striking in an upwards direction if they want to.

How often they lunge? That depends entirely on the cobra. You cannot tarnish them all with the same brush. There are plenty of cobras that will lunge straight off, forget about on an individual basis, it changes day by day!

I like how you nonchalantly say you "pat a cobra on the head"..sounds like a troll. Have any proof? Not that it's something to be proud of.

All venomous snakes have the ability to deliver a dry bite. Whether or not they do 0%, 50%, or 100% of the time, cannot be tested in a reliable manner.

I never said they couldn't strike upwards. I said hooded striking in an upwards direction, no. I still say that.

Do I have any proof that I pat a cobra on the head? No. Could I? Yes, but it's not something I would do again. I did it under some circumstances when I was younger and unemployed with nothing better to do. I would never do something like that again. I would never own a cobra because I know that I would try to hold it sooner or later and get bit. For this reason I don't deal with anything venomous, aside from my Rufous which have never attempted to bite me with the exception of me doing a study when I was hand feeding my smaller one which is also the calmest of the three.

I know all venomous snakes have the ability to deliver a dry bite, that's common sense. I was simply stating that a lot of snakes will deliver a dry bite the first time in attempt to scare the animal off and save their venom, or avoid potential injury. I would never assume that the bite would be dry either. I was stating a fact on why I said either that them or the Black Mambas are probably the smartest snake. Though nobody can prove anything about any species being the smartest, I'm simply going off my assumption. Could I be wrong? Probably. I'm just going off of what I've dealt with and seen and witnessed. Also I've never seen a black mamba first hand in this case but I've done quite a bit of research on them.

[Crotalids]

I never said they couldn't strike upwards. I said hooded striking in an upwards direction, no. I still say that.

Do I have any proof that I pat a cobra on the head? No. Could I? Yes, but it's not something I would do again. I did it under some circumstances when I was younger and unemployed with nothing better to do. I would never do something like that again. I would never own a cobra because I know that I would try to hold it sooner or later and get bit. For this reason I don't deal with anything venomous, aside from my Rufous which have never attempted to bite me with the exception of me doing a study when I was hand feeding my smaller one which is also the calmest of the three.

I know all venomous snakes have the ability to deliver a dry bite, that's common sense. I was simply stating that a lot of snakes will deliver a dry bite the first time in attempt to scare the animal off and save their venom, or avoid potential injury. I would never assume that the bite would be dry either. I was stating a fact on why I said either that them or the Black Mambas are probably the smartest snake. Though nobody can prove anything about any species being the smartest, I'm simply going off my assumption. Could I be wrong? Probably. I'm just going off of what I've dealt with and seen and witnessed. Also I've never seen a black mamba first hand in this case but I've done quite a bit of research on them.

Like I have said before, they can strike upwards from a hooded position. Whether they unhood during their strike doesn't matter, they struck upwards from a hooded position.

You're just another google expert. So I'm just going to leave it at that.

[John1982]

Active hunters, especially sight hunters, are going to seem more intelligent. Ever try stalking a coachwhip in a field of uncut grass? They will occasionally periscope to pinpoint your location while every time increasing the gap. You basically have to bolt to catch them if you spot one on the prowl. Wouldn't call it intelligence so much as using the inherent tools they've got given their spot on their evolutionary chain. Does it take more smarts to visually chase something down as opposed to tracking a scent? What about sitting near a body of water and waiting for prey to come to you? When snakes start using tools I'll begin production on "my snake is an honor student" bumper stickers for you folks who need them.

[Neal]

Like I have said before, they can strike upwards from a hooded position. Whether they unhood during their strike doesn't matter, they struck upwards from a hooded position.

You're just another google expert. So I'm just going to leave it at that.

I'm not googling anything kiddo so if you're going to try to seem smart, back up and prove the facts first.

I said they can't strike while hooded. Did that mean they can't unhood and strike? Nope. The fact is they didn't strike and stay hooded. My point remains.

[Crotalids]

I'm not googling anything kiddo so if you're going to try to seem smart, back up and prove the facts first.

I said they can't strike while hooded. Did that mean they can't unhood and strike? Nope. The fact is they didn't strike and stay hooded. My point remains.

I'm telling you from MY EXPERIENCE (Unlike you who doesn't own a cobra), that they can keep their hood and strike upwards. Granted it is in a jumping motion, nevertheless it is a strike.

When you've kept cobras for a few years, then please elaborate on your experiences. Until then, you're just another google expert, who "pats cobras on the head".

[Neal]

I'm telling you from MY EXPERIENCE (Unlike you who doesn't own a cobra), that they can keep their hood and strike upwards. Granted it is in a jumping motion, nevertheless it is a strike.

When you've kept cobras for a few years, then please elaborate on your experiences. Until then, you're just another google expert, who "pats cobras on the head".

I know you're butt hurt because of the fact you're trying to call me a Google expert. Like that commercial says if It's on the internet it has to be true, right? Wrong.

Yes I may not keep cobras but I know people that do. Show me one striking while not in the presence of food. I may be wrong, but why there is a reason they let go of the hood to lunge. Exactly what that one did.

[Crotalids]

I know you're butt hurt because of the fact you're trying to call me a Google expert. Like that commercial says if It's on the internet it has to be true, right? Wrong.

Yes I may not keep cobras but I know people that do. Show me one striking while not in the presence of food. I may be wrong, but why there is a reason they let go of the hood to lunge. Exactly what that one did.

That part i highlighted in bold is exactly why your word on anything to do with cobras, is a joke. Cobras don't just strike when food is around...again showing your lack of knowledge.

I managed to found an old clip of my siamensis when she was smaller. At the end you can clearly see (albeit it, it's not great) she strikes upwards towards the camera whilst her hood is still 'open'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SkeAcUSc1k

I do not know why I am even entertaining your remarks, you don't even keep Cobra's therefore your opinion is totally invalid with regards to their striking capabilities.