Colubrids vs Boids - Intelligence

[Badgemash]

Retics are boids?

Historically Pythonidae was classified as a subfamily (Pythoninae) of Family Boidae, so kind of, close enough for the gist of this discussion anyway.

I do feel like my hognose is definitely more observant than my BPs (who all appear to have ADD), but I don't know if that really makes her more intelligent or just more focused.

[Neal]

Historically Pythonidae was classified as a subfamily (Pythoninae) of Family Boidae, so kind of, close enough for the gist of this discussion anyway.

I do feel like my hognose is definitely more observant than my BPs (who all appear to have ADD), but I don't know if that really makes her more intelligent or just more focused.

They play dead by rolling over and sticking their tongue out of their mouth. They can release a pretty bad odor too. Then another thing they do is strike with their mouth closed.

Now the bad part is if one is playing dead and you flip him right up, he'll automatically flip back over. Which a dead snake wouldn't do

[bigt0006]

I say out of all my bps ,my carpet ,my bci, and my hognose my carpets seems to be the most intelligent then my bci then my hognose ,all my balls as much as i love them seem to be dumb as rocks but i still love them. My carpet was very cage aggressive the first week i got him he lunged at anything that got close to him and after 5 days of handling he tamed out alot. Now he wont strike he just acts tuff

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[Badgemash]

They play dead by rolling over and sticking their tongue out of their mouth. They can release a pretty bad odor too. Then another thing they do is strike with their mouth closed.

Now the bad part is if one is playing dead and you flip him right up, he'll automatically flip back over. Which a dead snake wouldn't do

The funny thing I've noticed with my hoggie, I can see her little red eyes watching me move and tracking things. You can watch her watching you, so when my other hand moves she tracks it, unlike the BPs who are completely oblivious until you touch them and then they "jump" with surprise, forget you're there after 10 seconds, and get startled again. I have seen the hogs doing the "no really I'm dead" roll over on youtube, but mine doesn't do it. I think she's just lazy or defective (or hopefully I just don't scare her).

Since my only recent experience (I had a burm, hoggies, and a corn as kid, which was an undisclosed length of time ago , so I don't really remember how "smart" they were) is hoggies and BPs, I vote hoggies as mildly smarter, but it's not like the bar is set very high.

[Bluebonnet Herp]

I know this isn't a snake but I kept a common snapping turtle years ago from the egg. I handled this turtle way more often than I have any other. When he reached about 4 inches he started to push his face into my hand when I'd pick him up. The first time he did this I didn't see it, only felt it. I thought it was his foot. When I looked down I was sure he was going to bite me. Instead he simply relaxed and went limp. He did this almost everytime I picked him up. If someone else picked him up he'd push his face into their hand and then struggle to be set free.

I highly doubt he recognized me although I'd like to really think he did. I really believe he learned he was safe based on how I handled him versus how others reacted to his "face bumps". I don't think this was a sign of intelligence but rather conditioning.

It's worth noting that he was, well, a turtle. Turtles are actually closely related to the archosaur taxonomic complex- they have more in common, genetically, to birds and crocodilians than to squamates. All these animals tend to show more awareness, social behavior and/or intelligence than the other reptiles. From what I know, almost every chelonian has a higher learning capacity and will at least learn to recognize people.

Edit: I've witnessed, on multiple occasions, that every time I add something new to my older ball's tank, she would, at some point, approach the object and "scan" (literally from top to bottom) the new object before going back to her hide. Also, once she gets going and is awake, she will try to exit her tank when it's open by approaching me from whatever direction I'm hovering over or on one specific side if I'm not standing next to the tank. I thought that was quite interesting. The other snake, though, is a panicky dunce.

[jason_ladouceur]

Historically Pythonidae was classified as a subfamily (Pythoninae) of Family Boidae, so kind of, close enough for the gist of this discussion anyway.

I do feel like my hognose is definitely more observant than my BPs (who all appear to have ADD), but I don't know if that really makes her more intelligent or just more focused.

Ya old habits die hard I guess. I still call gtp's chondros to, probably always will.

[Bluebonnet Herp]

Balls generally jerk their head back when you go in their tank/tub, though I'm sure they have exceptions to this rule.

The ball python I was referring to in my previous post can be considered one of the exceptions. She's not head shy and I think this more confident personality allows for a greater opportunity to observe this interactive behavior. That's probably why people will say the large, formidable constrictors such as retics and anacondas are more 'intelligent' because they aren't as shy. (I think, though, instead of referring to intelligence, it should be referred to as being more interactive and personalized, although snakes were proven in an experience to recognize locations and develop "mental mapping." I wouldn't be surprised if they could learn to recognize other things as well, and be aware of differences or changes.)

Of all snakes intelligence wise and me having little to no experience with them I would probably say Cobras or Black Mambas would be the highest on that list.

King cobras, hands down. These things will actually build a nest for their eggs.

[cecilbturtle]

It's worth noting that he was, well, a turtle. Turtles are actually closely related to the archosaur taxonomic complex- they have more in common, genetically, to birds and crocodilians than to squamates. All these animals tend to show more awareness, social behavior and/or intelligence than the other reptiles. From what I know, almost every chelonian has a higher learning capacity and will at least learn to recognize people.

Very interesting! Thank you! So are you saying that a turtle actually CAN recognize people or that they appear to be able to?

[Skiploder]

Very interesting! Thank you! So are you saying that a turtle actually CAN recognize people or that they appear to be able to?

Eh. Snakes are all pretty stupid. As Neal stated, many colubrids are very inquisitive and visual....which makes them seem more intelligent. Again, being a colubrid doesn't qualify for special status - colubridae is nothing but a taxonomic dumping ground for snakes that haven't been properly classified.

If we are discussing qualities that mimic perceived intelligence; well then there are several species that combine inquisitiveness, general activity and an alert demeanor which make them seem like the mensas of the snake world when compared to lumps like ball pythons and boas.

Psammophilines (psammophis, psammophylax, rhamphiophis) are all very curious and active snakes - as well as visually stimulated. Same goes for the dispholidines (thrasops, rhamnophis, dispholidus, thelatornis).

Drymarchon are often claimed to be intelligent, but I have a few that are pretty dumb and ball-pythony. I also have a few that have acclimated well, are fairly interactive and seem interested in what's going it.

Hydrodynastes are also a species I would put in that class. Clelia are endearingly goofy, and most philodryas species are indiscriminate biting machines.

If you are interested in an intelligent reptile buy a tortoise of a heloderma. Our russian tortoise is like a dog and our heloderma each have individual personalities and are extremely interactive.

[OsirisRa32]

Retics are boids?

Agreed on the interesting thread part though! Great question......

all constrictors fall under the boid classification HOWEVER there is a sub classification of pythonidae and boidae and it is in this sub classification that we typically divide the species up most familiar to us in the pet trade and forums.