conpiracy theories.

[kontron]

has anyone ever read "behold a plae horse" by william cooper???
it is a conspiracy theory book, about government control, and things like that. the book has theories about martial law, and adesses this in the chapter called "silent weapons for silent wars". it pretty much describes the situation in america. i do not remember all the details from the book, but a lot of what it said about the government taking over by creating war and chaos, seems to be becoming very true with the bush white house.... if you havent read it yet, i suggest you give it a good once over...

[elevatethis]

Any point of view or theory can be supported by the selectively arranging certain facts together in a certain way. I do think that the government is shady, and it is a natural feeling of powelessness for us, as lowly citizens, to feel. Some people deal with this by trying to promote conspiracy theories; but to what end? Overthrow the government? I look at it like this: we are the most powerful country in the world. We have one of the best standards of living in the world. Whether or not we agree with everything that goes on, in the grand scheme of things, we must be doing something right. And if that involves faking a moon landing here and there...so be it. If you don't like how the country is being run, either step up and try to make a difference yourself in a positive way, or leave. Either way, I think that most conspiracy theorists could be much more productive with their time and energy.

[elevatethis]

And to address the Bush comment...(I know we don't like political discussion on here but here goes anyway)...I can't decide on which way my vote is going to go this year. I don't agree with 9 out of every 10 things Bush does as far as policy goes, but at least he is consistant. Reading various literature about Kerry, I have yet to be convinced that he takes a straight stand on anything. So basically what I'm thinking is, is it better do have a wrong, strong stand on something, or no stand at all?

I'm thinking about this every day. But what does echo in my mind is this...times seemed much smoother in the 8 years prior to Bush being elected, under a DEMOCRATIC executive branch....

[Smulkin]

SShhhhhh the Illuminati will hear!!

[Smynx]

I know we're supposed to avoid political issues on here, so I hope we can keep this a civilized discussion, but this is an election year, and things are bound to come up.

Brad, you're right. Economically and in terms of foreign relations, we were much better off 8 years ago. Clinton was able to run for re-election with one simple phrase: "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?" Bush can't do that, so he bills himself as a "wartime president."

As for Kerry, everyone is still getting to know him. 3 weeks ago, I was unsure of him myself. After watching hours and hours of the Democratic National Convention (I was a total junkie), I now believe that John Kerry is the man we need in the White House. Has he changed his mind about a few things? Sure. But that's what thinking people do. Your first impression is not always correct, and sometimes after gathering more information, you realize there's more to an issue than you initially thought, and you change your position.

I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but I do think that sometimes people in power see opportunities to gain more power and seize those opportunities. Kontron, this book you describe sounds a lot like militia propaganda, and that scares me. But Brad, we are not "lowly citizens." This is OUR country. And you're right, we should either try to change what we don't like or leave. This is an election year. This is our chance to change things we don't like. And if you like what's happening in America right now, that's you're prerogative too, and I'll be the last person to try to take it from you. But for those of you who are dissatisfied (and are of legal voting age), get out and VOTE! If you're not registered, register. This is our country. We do have a say (except in Florida - just kidding - I couldn't resist).

[kontron]

WHOA! i meant this as a discusion on the book itself, not on the politics of elections and "patriotism". i was just asking if anyone has read this book, and if not you should.(at least read the first few chapters). there are a lot of things happening now that were stated in the book. for example, in silent weapons for secret wars it states about creating chaos in order to bring back order in your own sort of way. like create a war and fear of terrorism so people would be more willing to give up certain rights. and this is what is happening now. anyone that doesnt belive in a secret "shadow government" or that our government isnt corupt is sadly mistaken and very niave. this does not mean there is an evil illuminati, but there are secret things going on for sure.
the comment of change it or leave is very ignorant. people can not just pack up their lives and move, and it is a lot harder to change things then you think.
but back to the point at hand... READ THE BOOK!
even if you are not into those kind of books it is an interesting read. and that was the point of the post... was about the book... not the politics in the world.. but just about the book itself.
sorry to have started a political thing... BOOK! the book is the point.

[kontron]

by the way.. it is not a militia, overthrow the government book. it is more of a conspiracy theory involving everthing from government to drugs, sex, mind control, and aliens.
an interesting read.
more of an education of general conspiracy thoughts compiled into one giant book that wraps it all together...
i like the alien parts... they are always strange. and it makes you think what's out there kinda thoughts... again
BOOK! not politics

[Smynx]

Sorry if we misunderstood your intent, but when you say things like "it pretty much describes the situation in america" and "a lot of what it said about the government taking over by creating war and chaos, seems to be becoming very true with the bush white house" it kind of makes us think about politics, elections, and patriotism.

I don't think anyone doubts that there are things the government does that we do not know about. The key is to elect people we can trust to make the decisions that we may not be privvy to. I'll be the first to admit that there are things going on our government right now that are downright scary. People in the news have been talking for quite some time now about the politics of fear that the Bush administration has been promoting and the effect that it has had on our personal freedoms, but when you start talking about "shadow government" and martial law, it makes me think of the militia (and believe me, I know about the militia, I live in West Virginia). Now THAT is a scary bunch of people.

[kontron]

yes militia people are scary, but so is the military, and the thought of war and violence itself. i am one of those that decide to live "outside" of the system". in no way an outlaw or rebel, but i do what i want, and hurt no others...altough.. i was a teen and pulled a few pranks in my day. are the militias there right-wing or left wing? i guess both are as scary, but it's interesting to me. war and the strugle for power. the strugle for minds, power, and the things that follow.
not so much the events themselves, but the infinite possibilities of the outcome is what interest me. for example the thought of "what if hitler had won WW2"?
or an even better thought, i saw on a movie i can't remember, "if you were with hitler deep in the jungle, 20 years before he bacame what he was, knowing he was totaly inocent, would you kill him? would you kill an inoccent man knowing millions of lives would be saved, or would you let him live cause he has yet to do anything wrong."? this also makes me think of the question " if you could alter time, would you"?
this is more of the conversationi was leaning to.
sorry to not state it more clearly.

[Smynx]

Violence in any form is appalling to me. I guess if I knew Hitler before he became what he did and did what he did, I would try to befriend him and stay close to him and steer him in another direction to ensure those things didn't happen. I don't even want to consider what would be if he had won WW2 - it's just too sick. I think people get what they deserve, if not in this life, then in the next. Maybe Hitler keeps getting reincarnated over and over again as the rodents we feed to our snakes - that's a really nice idea.

The people I've known who have been or are involved in the militia have been conservative - we are at the tail end of the bible belt, after all. I'm a bleeding-heart liberal myself. I'm so far left I'm falling off the edge, so I'm a little out of place here where the majority of people are moderate democrats. I still think Bush won West Virginia last time because of his position on gun control. Between the hunters and the militia, he's got a base in West Virginia. We may not be the elite (you might not get this reference if you haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11), but there's a base here nonetheless.