Online Rat Communities?

[MrLang]

This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. The websites discussing some of these traits are very old and not complete with some of the newer genes.

The merles pop out mixed 50/50 for me. They are either that lilac color or they are dark - there is no in between. Are you saying there isn't another gene at play there?

I want my merles to look more like the one you posted - any tips on how to cross them out to get the pattern more blotchy?

Good to know my high whites come from variegated. I get crazy mixes from mostly berk x berk or berk x irish and berk x any of the high whites with face mask types of features. Michelle - what are the names of the groups you recommend?

[Marrissa]

I wish you guys were closer. I want some dwarfs and pretty patterns and colors.

[Michelle.C]

This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. The websites discussing some of these traits are very old and not complete with some of the newer genes.

The merles pop out mixed 50/50 for me. They are either that lilac color or they are dark - there is no in between. Are you saying there isn't another gene at play there?

I want my merles to look more like the one you posted - any tips on how to cross them out to get the pattern more blotchy?

Good to know my high whites come from variegated. I get crazy mixes from mostly berk x berk or berk x irish and berk x any of the high whites with face mask types of features. Michelle - what are the names of the groups you recommend?

Most of the Merles I produced are considered Light Phase/Pearls, the "Lilac" color is just a darker phase of Pearl (called Dark Phase Pearl). The shade of Pearl is determined by the penetrance (how much the Pearl gene is expressing). There are technically THREE genes at play with Pearl Merles (neat huh?). Mink is the base (which is diluted black), Pearl and Merle. So, the genetic code is aa(black)mm(Mink, which is what is diluting the black to brown)Pepe(lethal dominant Pearl, which is a tipped variety)Meme(Incomplete Dominant Merle).

The phase of Pearl can be gradually selected for, but I found the best way to get a lighter shade is to out cross to another American Mink line (Since UK Mink doesn't Merle well). It's likely the invisible modifiers/dilutions messing with your shade of Pearl. As far as the blotches, lightening the phase of Pearl will bring out the splotches more. Also pay attention to the Minks (the browns) in the litter. Mink can be Merle too, it's impossible to see it as adults, but you will see black-ish blotches on the babies. Just keep selecting for the best blotches/color and find a good American Mink to out cross to. You can also try to find a black that isn't carrying much, out cross there and then breed the offspring back together.

Also, important note about Merles, make sure there are as few modifiers/dilutions in the line as possible, they will wash out your Merle spots. Mink is easily influenced and lightened, even when it's just carrying other dilutions. With the Merle spots being a shade of Mink, you don't want Russian Blue, American Blue, UK Mink, C-locus, etc. in the line.

[artgecko]

Michelle C- Thanks again for the info! The first babies I'm getting to start my colony are from a blue self dumbo to a blue hooded dumbo, so I'm thinking these are safe.. I was just wondering for future reference. There are few to no good breeders (or any breeders for that matter) here, so I'm thinking most of my stock will have to come from pet stores, so I may not have access to multiple generations for reference.

Yeah, I too wish you guys were closer, I'd love to have some merles or dwarfs.

[Michelle.C]

This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. The websites discussing some of these traits are very old and not complete with some of the newer genes.

The merles pop out mixed 50/50 for me. They are either that lilac color or they are dark - there is no in between. Are you saying there isn't another gene at play there?

I want my merles to look more like the one you posted - any tips on how to cross them out to get the pattern more blotchy?

Good to know my high whites come from variegated. I get crazy mixes from mostly berk x berk or berk x irish and berk x any of the high whites with face mask types of features. Michelle - what are the names of the groups you recommend?

Also, interesting side note - "High White" is an extremely misleading term, you can produce Megacolon from Irish x Irish, as SOX10 Dom is a white spotting gene and can mimic Irish markings. That said, so can Variegated (it can look Irish, Berk, etc.) But, yes, markings like that can come from several different genes. The most common (unfortunately) being SOX10 Dom.

[sorraia]

I was very well known among the Internet rat forums, while I was breeding. If you want to join those groups, you'll want to keep quiet about breeding feeders, and maybe even about breeding at all. The general attitude on those groups is:
1) Breeding is bad. Rescue is best.
2) If you are going to breed, you have to do it a certain way.

The "right" way to breed will depend on who you ask. There are "groups". You have your "run of the mill" or "backyard" type breeder (using these terms loosely, as they are used in the internet rat forum communities). Maybe have decent rats, but you don't fit in the clique. You might breed too many litters (more than 4 in a year), or breed your rats too many times (single female bred more than twice in her lifetime), or breed too young (females bred before 6 months of age, males bred before 1 year of age), or breed the wrong colors (anything with a lot of white, blue, dwarf, tailless, etc), or keep them in the wrong cages, feed them the wrong food, don't play with them enough, etc etc. It's a very tight-knit community, and word spreads fast, include false word, so when you do something to piss one person off, you'll probably be blacklisted by everyone else. I was able to play my cards well and had the colors that were desirable enough, with enough pedigree records, and enough time in the realm of rat breeding, that I was able to escape such blacklisting by the "higher ranks", even when I used rats that came from the "backyard breeders". But it's not easy, you need to walk a fine line and really watch what you say. I'm not suggesting you lie, because when you do you will get caught and things will be even worse. But if you want to be involved, you really need to know what is believed, supported, and encouraged, and even have to believe it yourself just enough to be able to talk the talk while walking the walk.

My suggestion, stick with local easy going groups, feeder friendly groups, or open minded groups that are more concerned with proper care of the animals than the politics behind the scenes. I'm not very active on the forum groups any more. If I were, I could/would probably be blacklisted because I now have snakes (and breed food for those snakes! *gasp*). Doesn't matter how the rats are cared for, what my history is in those groups, or even the fact I don't even use the same lines I had when I was breeding for pets only, the very fact I now breed food for my snakes is an almost unforgivable offense.

There's one forum that's a bit more easy going. They don't immediately blacklist feeder breeders or snake keepers, but they don't want to hear about it either. They are not breeder friendly, unless you meet the criteria of a "responsible, ethical, reputable" breeder. It takes time to gain that reputation too. I can send you the link for that forum if you are interested, just PM me.

[Awaiting Abyss]

I wish I could find a rat forum that was friendly and open to various opinions like the mouse forum I'm on. I hate how every rat forum is pro rescue and against breeding of any kind.
The rat forum I'm on actually made me bitter toward rats as pets for a long time until I left the forum for a while.

[satomi325]

Aside from the Feeder Breeder Facebook Group, there is also the Natural Rodent Forum on Facebook. They're not very active, but they are pet, breeder, and feeder friendly.

[artgecko]

I found this one yesterday and they seem pro-breeding... But I'm sure it's show / pet focused. They have sections for mice and rats, but are Australian-based.

I've joined (waiting approval). I'm curious to see what they say about breeding questions. I do know that they have a sub forum just on breeding, so that is making me hopeful.

[sorraia]

Even while I was breeding pet/show rats, I kept a certain distance. The politics, high school drama, and cliques were downright exhausting. I miss those rats I had, but I'm glad I don't have to deal with the other stuff any more.