On the fence about starting a small breeding colony

[artgecko]

Hey folks,
I'm pretty new to the world of snakes, having only a small collection that started over the summer this year. I am also totally new to the idea of raising my own feeders and need some guidance before I decide to move ahead with this potential project.

At this point, I have 3 snakes,(2 small Kenyan sand boa females and 1 male hognose). I have plans for at least 2 more KSB females, a kingsnake, and 2-3 ball pythons in the future, but those additions will probably not happen until late next year after we move into a house and I invest in a rack or two.

I currently feed f/t, which is working, but I have a problem feeder and find my options limited as only 2 chain stores in my area carry live and neither carry smaller than adult mice.

Given my situation, I am considering starting a very small breeding colony of 1.3 after the new year. and have a few questions for those of you with mouse breeding knowledge to help me make up my mind.

1. Would a 10gl tank for females, a separate tank for the male, and 2 grow out tanks (one for female and one for male offspring) be enough "real estate" for a small colony?

2. The odor of male mice is horrific from what I've read... Would keeping them on pine pelleted bedding (i.e. feline pine) with a layer of aspen on top and cleanings once a week be adequate to deal with this? This is a major concern as my husband is very sensitive to odors.

3. How much money a month would i be looking at to keep a colony like this going, roughly speaking? I'm not necessarily in this to save $$ right now, but I don't want to be "in the hole" for it either.

4. Seeing as I currently have 3 snakes who usually take f/t, could I breed a litter every 1-2 months, grow them to the correct size, and cull / freeze the rest to feed at a later date?

5. I'd like to breed for temperament and health in my feeders, but I only have pet store stock to work with...would it be good to hold the potential breeding females / male for a while (say, until they are about 6 months or so) to make sure they are free from early tumors, not psycho, etc? Would this be helpful or not in your opinion?

6. I'm considering culling the mice using CD (except for small pinkies), I know that building a CO2 chamber may come in handy, but given the small numbers I'd be dealing with, is CD a feasible method?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and your help! If only my current snakes ate rats, I'd be a lot less cautious about starting a breeding project, but I hear so many mixed reviews on breeding mice that I"m not sure what to think.

Artgecko

[satomi325]

1. Would a 10gl tank for females, a separate tank for the male, and 2 grow out tanks (one for female and one for male offspring) be enough "real estate" for a small colony?

2. The odor of male mice is horrific from what I've read... Would keeping them on pine pelleted bedding (i.e. feline pine) with a layer of aspen on top and cleanings once a week be adequate to deal with this? This is a major concern as my husband is very sensitive to odors.

3. How much money a month would i be looking at to keep a colony like this going, roughly speaking? I'm not necessarily in this to save $$ right now, but I don't want to be "in the hole" for it either.

4. Seeing as I currently have 3 snakes who usually take f/t, could I breed a litter every 1-2 months, grow them to the correct size, and cull / freeze the rest to feed at a later date?

5. I'd like to breed for temperament and health in my feeders, but I only have pet store stock to work with...would it be good to hold the potential breeding females / male for a while (say, until they are about 6 months or so) to make sure they are free from early tumors, not psycho, etc? Would this be helpful or not in your opinion?

6. I'm considering culling the mice using CD (except for small pinkies), I know that building a CO2 chamber may come in handy, but given the small numbers I'd be dealing with, is CD a feasible method?

1. 10gl would work well. You can also keep the male in with your females if you want, but they'll be breeding constantly.

2. Pine pelleted bedding with or without aspen is fine. You may have to clean them once or twice a week. Mice are pretty stinky compared to other rodents. They're the worst between mice, rats, and asfs. Just make sure you have good air circulation and uncrowded enclosures. A few drops of vanilla extract into their water helps with the odor as well.

3. For a 1.3 colony, that would be very cheap to run. A 50lb bag of rodent food is roughly $25-30. That would probably last months for such a small colony like yours. A 40lb bag of pine pellets from Home Depot is $4-5. (not sure how much feline pine is) and would probably last a few months as well.

4. Yes, you can breed and euthanize/freeze your feeders. Just plan your breedings around what you want. A mouse's gestation period is roughly 21 days. A female goes into heat every 4 days. She will not go into heat when she has a nursing litter. However, she does have one heat that occurs right after birth for a few hours. If she is mated then, the next litter will be born as the current litter is weaned.

5. I would breed them earlier than 6 months of age. Once they hit adult size. You'll have larger litters and larger pups when the mother is younger and in her 'prime'. If you wait too long, first time births are harder on the females and have a higher occurrence of smaller litters when they're older and start breeding later like that. You'll not likely see tumors appear until rodents are over a year old or two. If you go to a feeder breeder or a private breeder, just ask if tumors are common occurrences in their colony.

6. CD is fine on animals 2 weeks and older. Pinks can be frozen straight.

[artgecko]

Thanks for the reply and info!

I'm thinking that I'll go for it as soon as we find a house and get settled in. I know keeping mice in an apartment would be too much smell-wise, so hopefully with a good maintenance routine and the roominess of a house that won't be an issue.

Would you recommend getting all unrelated animals or getting related females and an unrelated male? I wish that I had a good breeder in my area (even a feeder-breeder), but all I have are chains that sell either the "fancy" mice or the regular feeders. Hopefully I"ll be able to find healthy stock when the time comes.

Thanks again for your help!
Artgecko