Fellow dog owners - what food do you feed?

[Marissa@MKmorphs]

To all who are feeding raw diets: Keep it at a minimum, raw diets are ALWAYS deficient in certain vitamins and minerals that are present for a reason in dry, semi-moist, and wet manufactured pet foods.

Remember: Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores. No, not even wolves.

And Science Diet is not bad food, it was once top of the line. The bar has just been raised and now it's a mid-grade food that can easily sustain good overall health in many many breeds.

I could see how SD was once a great food. If you compare ingredients, it does use a lot more by-products and non-animal protein sources. These days for the same price you can get a much higher quality food. Each dog is different though!


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[Mike41793]

To all who are feeding raw diets: Keep it at a minimum, raw diets are ALWAYS deficient in certain vitamins and minerals that are present for a reason in dry, semi-moist, and wet manufactured pet foods.

Remember: Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores. No, not even wolves.

And Science Diet is not bad food, it was once top of the line. The bar has just been raised and now it's a mid-grade food that can easily sustain good overall health in many many breeds.

Raw diets don't just include meat... A well balanced raw diet has everything the dog needs and is perfectly safe and healthy to feed.

[pookie!]

To all who are feeding raw diets: Keep it at a minimum, raw diets are ALWAYS deficient in certain vitamins and minerals that are present for a reason in dry, semi-moist, and wet manufactured pet foods.

Remember: Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores. No, not even wolves.

And Science Diet is not bad food, it was once top of the line. The bar has just been raised and now it's a mid-grade food that can easily sustain good overall health in many many breeds.

That is 100% FALSE! A proper fed RAW diet is not deficient in anything, thats like saying YOU only feeding your snakes rats is making it deficient in vitamins and minerals.

DOGS ARE CARNIVORES FACT. BUT if you are still one of the weirdos who thinks they arent OR you heavily work a dog you can go with the BARF or semi-BARF diet (like we will be doing come heavier work season). That includes some vegetable matter BUT for dogs to digest vegetable matter you need top blanch it (cook) and then blend it into a paste otherwise it passes through and little if any is absorbed, you know, cuz they are carnivores and all.

A little snippit from some research I have done over the years of raw feeding

"3.) Internal anatomy and physiology

Dogs and cats have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be preprocessed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a questionable practice.

Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. Thus, feeding dogs as though they were omnivores taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through chewing and tearing and their enzymes are released).

Nor do dogs have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter—even preprocessed plant matter—are unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. If a dog can only digest 40-60% of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 40-60% (ideally!) of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs."

I wouldnt say raw feeding is the end all be all to dog health, and have seen some dogs who do terrible but the majority thrive on it, they dont just live and survive but THRIVE and you dont completely understand that until you start feeding an animal a species appropriate diet.

My dog has been on PMR (prey model raw, so zero vegetable matter) for almost 3 years now..




This is our other dog, PMR fed since Jan






People seem to think and forget that a proper raw diet contains specific amounts of muscle meat, bone, organs and you can add in oils, green tripe, eggs, apple cider vinegar, and yes the odd vegetable that can benefit your dog if you so choose upon proper preparation for it to be beneficial.

Typical meal for our dogs

(chicken quarter, chicken gizzard, hamburger, beef liver, mackerel, whole egg, acv, and fish oil)

The problem is when people not educated on the subject try and explain it.

If anyone is interested in learning about or starting a raw diet with their dogs, here ya go.. factual information http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html

[pookie!]

To all who are feeding raw diets: Keep it at a minimum, raw diets are ALWAYS deficient in certain vitamins and minerals that are present for a reason in dry, semi-moist, and wet manufactured pet foods.

Remember: Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores. No, not even wolves.

And Science Diet is not bad food, it was once top of the line. The bar has just been raised and now it's a mid-grade food that can easily sustain good overall health in many many breeds.

That is 100% FALSE! A proper fed RAW diet is not deficient in anything, thats like saying YOU only feeding your snakes rats is making it deficient in vitamins and minerals.

DOGS ARE CARNIVORES FACT. BUT if you are still one of the weirdos who thinks they arent OR you heavily work a dog you can go with the BARF or semi-BARF diet (like we will be doing come heavier work season). That includes some vegetable matter BUT for dogs to digest vegetable matter you need top blanch it (cook) and then blend it into a paste otherwise it passes through and little if any is absorbed, you know, cuz they are carnivores and all.

A little snippit from some research I have done over the years of raw feeding

"3.) Internal anatomy and physiology

Dogs and cats have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be preprocessed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a questionable practice.

Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. Thus, feeding dogs as though they were omnivores taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through chewing and tearing and their enzymes are released).

Nor do dogs have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter—even preprocessed plant matter—are unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. If a dog can only digest 40-60% of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 40-60% (ideally!) of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs."

I wouldnt say raw feeding is the end all be all to dog health, and have seen some dogs who do terrible but the majority thrive on it, they dont just live and survive but THRIVE and you dont completely understand that until you start feeding an animal a species appropriate diet.

My dog has been on PMR (prey model raw, so zero vegetable matter) for almost 3 years now..




This is our other dog, PMR fed since Jan






We have half a litter of puppies here now too and they will starting raw once the bulk are shipped off to their new homes

People seem to think and forget that a proper raw diet contains specific amounts of muscle meat, bone, organs and you can add in oils, green tripe, eggs, apple cider vinegar, and yes the odd vegetable that can benefit your dog if you so choose upon proper preparation for it to be beneficial.

Typical meal for our dogs

(chicken quarter, chicken gizzard, hamburger, beef liver, mackerel, whole egg, acv, and fish oil)

The problem is when people not educated on the subject try and explain it.

If anyone is interested in learning about or starting a raw diet with their dogs, here ya go.. factual information http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html

[AlexisFitzy]

I fed my dog pedigree his whole life and he grew up to be a big strong wonderful doggy Pedigree was the only brand of dog food that didn't give him horrible gas and diarrhea.


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[Mrl249]

We feed pedigree large breed, never heard of raw feeding looks interesting. This is my big girl

[TheSnakeGuy]

It's not false. Nor is it objective research. It's me sitting in my Animal Nutrition course, which is aimed entirely at the nutritional requirements of canine/feline diets what good methods are for providing them with solid maintenance nutrition throughout all life stages.

[Kinra]

My mutts get feed Earthborn. My lab gets the coast catch (grain free and fished based) and the pup gets the puppy variety. I love Earthborn and my dogs seem to love it as well.

It's amazing the difference quality food will make in a dog. My lab gets a lot of comments because he has a beautiful black coat that is really shinny. When I got my puppy they were feeding Purina Puppy Chow, after slowly switching him to the Earthborn puppy food the change in his coat was amazing.

[sorraia]

My dogs (and cats) are on a purely raw diet. I'm following the "prey model" version of the raw diet, which involves feeding ratios of meat, bone, and organ that would mimic that found in a whole prey animal. These don't necessarily need to be fed on a daily basis, as long as the overall diet (say within a week's time) comes out to the right ratio. No supplements necessary. My cats have been on this diet for more than 7 years, my older dog for more than 5 years, and my younger dog for almost as long as I've had her (she's going on 3 years now, got her when she was 3 months old, and switched her to this diet after she got out of the vet hospital and recovered from parvo). They are doing fabulously, always a perfect 5 on the body condition scale, vet always has good things to say about their health, bloodwork always perfect, teeth in excellent condition, etc. I couldn't be happier.

Oh and in terms of cost... I have actually found raw to be LESS expensive than a high quality kibble. That will depend on your location and availability too. I'm part of a local co-op and able to purchase my raw foods in bulk (human-grade food too, so I can eat it also if I choose!). Only catch is having a freezer to store it in.

[anatess]

And about Science Diet. It is crap food.

They went through an overhaul last year - getting new packaging, re-formulating to make the product seem like it has more animal-based protein now, getting rid of artificial dyes and animal by-products... but looking at it closely it is still the same crap food it was. Yes, meat is now the first ingredient but then it is followed by a whole bunch of high-protein cereals. Which means, most of the protein still come from plants, not animals.

So, you ask, so what? So what if the main source of protein is corn or rice? It is still high protein! Protein is the most critical nutrient in a dog's diet. Dogs require 22 amino acids for its survival - if only 1 of these amino acids is missing, the rest of the amino acids cannot do the needed function. Protein is the carrier for these amino acids. A dog can produce its own amino acids by breaking down proteins. But the dog's body cannot produce 10 out of the 22 amino acids that is essential for its survival on its own, so it needs to get those amino acids directly from the protein it consumes.

But, not all proteins contain those 10 missing amino acids. And in addition to that, not all protein sources are digestible to dogs (low biological value). Basically, my leather shoe that my dog likes to chew is rich in protein - but when the dog poops, the pieces of leather comes out undigested, so it has practically no nutritional value to the dog. So, what we need to do is to find a good protein source that has a high biological value to the dog and is rich in all 10 of these amino acids.

Proteins from animals have a much higher chance of containing all of these amino acids than plant material. But not all body parts of an animal is a good source either. Beaks, hoofs, and most animal by-products are rich in protein but is of low biological value and is not rich in those missing aminos. So, when you see a dog food that boasts of high protein content but contains the words (any kind of animal) by-product, that's low quality.

You can also get these essential aminos from the right combination of plant matter. But, plant matter has low biological value to a dog. Think about this - biological value is measured from 1 to 100. 100 is egg - a dog can digest and use 100% of a raw egg. Fish meal is 92. Beef is 78. Corn is 54. Wheat gluten is 40. So, basically, a dog can only use 54% of a corn's protein. So, you see a dog food bag and it lists Protein at 25% and you think, that's high protein, and you realize, a big bunch of it comes from corn, so you can just go ahead and slash half of it because it's not going to get digested. And what's more, plant matter is high in carbohydrates. Carbohydrates is not essential to a dog. The dog can break it down and use it for energy but it is not very efficient in doing so. Basically, most of the carbs-breakdown-work is done by the pancreas which is very taxing on a dog's system. So, the more carbs a dog food contains, the bigger chance you got of a sick dog.

Anyway, vets sell Science Diet in their offices. This is even well before Science diet overhauled their formula last year. Vets are terrible at dog nutrition because vet schools are sponsored by dog food companies. So, unless they do their own research on the matter, they just go by what dog food company researchers say. Of course, that research has bias. They're working for the dog food company. And so they go open their vet practice... and they get subsidy if they prescribe or carry Science Diet in their offices.

So yeah, this is such a long-winded post just to say... Science Diet is still crap food.