Scale-less BP photo!

[Crotalids]

Disgusting animal.

Not sure what is wrong with what nature gave us, there are hundreds of naturally pretty snakes. But for some reason humans like to ruin an animal.

[therunaway]

Okay. I'm just now tuning into this thread and wow has this site changed in the last couples of months. The way I'm going to try and explain this snake may make some upset but hopefully not. Here goes.

Basically what you guys are telling me is that no one should have this snake because it's scaleless and that's a deformity? All morphs are deformities. Now comes my comparison, so you're telling me that children born without limbs and with autism should thrown out? Isn't that what you're saying about this animal? My best friend has a prosthetic leg and arm, that's a deformity, whether snake or human, everyone deserves a chance!

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[LawrenceT]

All morphs are deformities. Now comes my comparison, so you're telling me that children born without limbs and with autism should thrown out? Isn't that what you're saying about this animal? My best friend has a prosthetic leg and arm, that's a deformity, whether snake or human, everyone deserves a chance!

Would you deliberately breed children to be born without limbs or with autism though?

I'll wait until we know more about this morph before I pass judgement.

[therunaway]

You're missing my point. No I would not deliberately breed children with problems but, it's the fact that mistakes happen all the time!

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[Crotalids]

You're missing my point. No I would not deliberately breed children with problems but, it's the fact that mistakes happen all the time!

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It's not missing the point, it was the fact your point was a stupid statement to make.

Deformities in humans aren't encouraged, where as, deformities in reptiles are encouraged and are purposely bred.

[eatgoodfood]

So is this the new divisional line in our hobby? Anatomically correct and natural occurring purist and designer freakshow lovers?

My statement is fairly valid. You're being quite the unreasonable juvenile about a physical defect you do not have any mandate to own. You are completely unaffected by it because there will be people (foolish) like you that will not work with this gene at all. It has absolutely NO effect on you. Quite literally.

Get over yourself, you're making this into something it is not. It literally does not affect you so long as you make it so.

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This is nothing new, this division has been there for a LONG time. There is a high number of herpetologists and hobbyists out there what despise what we "do" in the ball python world. Some do go as far as only keeping specific localities of animals and keeping blood lines pure. But on that, I think the morelia keepers are far worse, mixing species and subspecies like its nothing... this I HATE, you have no idea what your buying any more the bloodlines are so muddled. As far as I know there are no subspecies of ball pythons, so breed away. I am 100% anti hybrid.

As for the scaleless thing, not my cup of tea, and I will have to agree with expensivehobby on everything he has said thus far. We have to have a point where we stop if anyone is ever going to take us seriously, the 'serious' side of the community already sees us as a danger to the hobby, not to mention a joke.

The whole thing about dogs that was brought up, well with some breeds the point of no return has been reached, and it should be illegal, were at the point where the only way they can reproduce is by cutting them open because they can no longer give birth naturally, its sick. And thats where were headed with ball pythons, and corns and all of these other 'designer' snakes.

We have already gone this far, its here, its here to stay, I just hope it stops here. And maybe its not all that bad, maybe I just have an extremist view here, I dont know, but it will be interesting to see how the rest of the herp community reacts to this. I just hope that these animals are anatomically correct, minus the scales, and as we all can see by the picture, it doesn't have heat pits so were already screwing with that. It will be interesting to see how the animal develops.

[Crazymonkee]

I am interested in seeing how it turns out! Beautiful animal

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[OhhWatALoser]

Is it me or are people in this thread talking like this is the first scaleless snake in the hobby. Guys it is only the first scaleless ball python. Also some of these arguments are manipulation of the other's words just to prove who is right, is this the youtube comment section now? Can we at least have a logical argument?

Fun fact: Spider, Woma, Hidden Gene Woma, Champagne, Spotnose, Sable, Champagne, Desert, Caramel Albino, Cinnamon, Black Pastel, Lesser Platinum, Butter, and Piedbald all can have issues beyond the color mutation, whether it be alone or when combined with other morphs.

[rlditmars]

I am just stating my opinion for the purpose of provoking thought. I do not wish to argue. I "feel" that selectively breeding for traits, or deformities, etc. that diminish the animal's natural abilities , i.e. heat sensory, locomotion, etc., is indulgent and gives little consideration to the welfare of the animal. Be it scaleless snakes, hairless cats, pug nosed dogs, these are all examples of human's folly to appease their own curiousity and/or desires, while leaving the animal diminished.

Those that will argue about naturally occurring morphs such as the scaleless head, pied, etc. need to consider that natural selection will opt to eliminate those mutations that do not promote the species' existance. This is why albinism is not found in huge numbers or whole populations. As the animal is much more easily seen, it makes it much more vulnerable to predation. Perhaps if it were to avoid predation long enough it would prove to be susceptible to irradtiation from the sun and succumb to cancer (speculating I know). Further, I "believe" the arguement of selectively breeding children without arms, while extreme, makes the point well. People would probably percieve it as cruel and irresponsible since the result would hinder the ability of the person to live normally as we know one should live. There would likely be extreme debates and protests over the issue, if not legislation in the end. This is no different. It is just a different species with no advocate.

The owner of this animal has chosen to promote a birth defect, not a characteristic. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Snakes have scales as the emperical data will confirm. That is a characteristic of snakes. The defect is one that likely would not promote nor enhance the survival of the animal, if it were to exist in a natural environment and had to fend for itself. And while this might be an opinion, it is only so because there has been no study of scaleless snakes in the wild. You may want to ask yourself, "why that is"?

In my "opinion" a scaleless snake is not a positive for ball pythons. Just my 0.02

[eatgoodfood]

Is it me or are people in this thread talking like this is the first scaleless snake in the hobby. Guys it is only the first scaleless ball python. Also some of these arguments are manipulation of the other's words just to prove who is right, is this the youtube comment section now? Can we at least have a logical argument?

Fun fact: Spider, Woma, Hidden Gene Woma, Champagne, Spotnose, Sable, Champagne, Desert, Caramel Albino, Cinnamon, Black Pastel, Lesser Platinum, Butter, and Piedbald all can have issues beyond the color mutation, whether it be alone or when combined with other morphs.

Not the first scaleless ball python, also not the first scaleless snake, I understand that, and scaleless snakes, if what someone previously said is true, can be found in the wild, not really my argument. (Not saying what you said was specifically directed at me either) The animal may be fine, I however wont support it. The biggest issue I see here is that it has not heat pits, something that these animals have for a reason. My point is, where does it stop? There has to be a line where this becomes unmoral, and I feel, personally, that this is it. I guess this is the point where I just step back, observe, and see how this all plays out.