Morning Gripe: A thought on lowering prices too far

[anatess]

Thank you very much for the input, I am really working hard at making a solid rep for myself. I would love not to have to drop my pricing, I'm just a bit worried about the possibility. My one reference is a sale, and I am certainly happy to have that, even if it isn't on the BOI. Any other sage words? I really appreciate it.

Hi Mr. Robertson, I bought Salazar (my spider) from a 12-year old that I drove 120 miles for. If I remember correctly, I paid $400 for him. That's a lot of money to have to drive 120 miles for to buy from a 12-year old. But, I did it. The kid is experienced too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on BP.net... (if you are, you must be around 16 now and I'm super interested to know how you're doing, so give a shout out over here!). From what I understand, he chooses his snakes carefully and his dad is the "legal" side of things as well as the driver and overseer (to meet buyers). He doesn't breed (not yet at that time, at least). He goes to Reptile shows and builds his stock from there, picking great babies that he can grow out and then sell.

I decided to purchase from him even knowing that he's a 12-year-old because of the way he handled himself. The pictures of his stock was top-notch. He knew everything there is to know about ball pythons, especially proper husbandry, answering all my questions. All his emails and all our phone conversations were very professional. If he did not mention his dad (which led me to ask how old he is), I wouldn't have guessed he is 12! Good grammar on the emails and none of these short-cut teen-age speak. Very respectful on the phone calling me Ma'am and very well modulated voice (I pay attention to that kind of stuff). I asked him to meet me halfway but he refused as his dad did not want to drive that far but he was very respectful in saying it and tried to counter it by telling me all about how the reduced pattern in his spider is really worth the trip (quite excellent, confident but non-pushy salesmanship). And one thing that really impressed me is he told me that his spider does not have a noticeable wobble at this time but all spiders have the potential of wobbling as they grow older. Shows me he wants to make sure I'm going to keep the snake. It made me think hard and do more research on spiders. I met him and his dad at a public place (I've never spoken/written to his dad), I wrote the check out to his dad's name (I did not want to pay cash so I can dispute the sale if needed). They had to give me that extra level of trust that my check is good. Now, the funny thing is - his dad is deathly scared of snakes but he is a businessman, so he lets his kid keep his snakes in his room and nowhere else in the house. He had a lemon pastel that he brought just in case I'd be interested in it as it would be a good breeding pair with the spider (another good salesmanship). I had no interest in breeding, I just wanted a pet snake, so I didn't get the lemon pastel but it was very very tempting! Love that kid! And he's TWELVE!

I wonder how that kid is doing now...

My advice: Learn what it takes to be a professional and pay very close attention to economics class (that is if you have a good teacher, if not, go take some business courses or something... there should be some community education summer courses available on those circulars that come by the house).

And one last thing: one bad review wipes out 10 good ones just like one rep-killing post on EBN wipes out 10 good posts that can potentially kill your chances of having EBN customers. And EBN members usually know members or are members of other forums and this rep could follow you around. Be very careful with what you say/do on these sites. Not many people will give an age-pass when it comes to parting with hard-earned cash.

[WtGreg]

My point stands in the current situation, though you are right in your hypothetical.

In my opinion, people are too afraid to undercut an undercut especially when it's already that low. I'll admit I'm talking more on a show level than Internet Sales, but the point is the same.

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Thank you for this comment! It is so important to acknowledge the difference as well as similarities in show sales versus internet sale!
Shows many times have tighter variances in prices than internet, at least the ones I have been to. I have heard of other shows being different from this, but the shows I have been to have not been so. So when it comes to the deals they give, alot of times you may find they are pretty close from booth to booth, person to person for similar snakes since they also start at tighter together base prices. Thing is the deals are not flaunted and that is important; the next person may not know nor get the same deal you got, either better or worse. This is important, read past comments for why, I don't want to say everything all over again, but within the shows things just seem a little more balanced.
Jumping the comparison over to internet prices, well I have usually not paid full price for a snake at a show unless I truly wanted that particular snake, but also usually know I can get online and find a better deal. At the show I get a chance to meet the person and see how into it they are, see the snake in person, and other little things, so I am OK with paying a little extra for this, and it helps them with gas money and what not to have even come to the show, so I am personally supportive of shows and the different prices compared to the internet. It is important though to acknowledge these difference and understand them instead of just saying "shows are too high priced" which I have heard a lot of, but there are reasons for this on both the sellers and the buyers side.
unfortunately, this is where I will stop my rant on shows, but if it comes up again I have more to say . Thank you again for pointing out another important point to be made that wasn't referenced before.

[Kodieh]

Thank you for this comment! It is so important to acknowledge the difference as well as similarities in show sales versus internet sale!
Shows many times have tighter variances in prices than internet, at least the ones I have been to. I have heard of other shows being different from this, but the shows I have been to have not been so. So when it comes to the deals they give, alot of times you may find they are pretty close from booth to booth, person to person for similar snakes since they also start at tighter together base prices. Thing is the deals are not flaunted and that is important; the next person may not know nor get the same deal you got, either better or worse. This is important, read past comments for why, I don't want to say everything all over again, but within the shows things just seem a little more balanced.
Jumping the comparison over to internet prices, well I have usually not paid full price for a snake at a show unless I truly wanted that particular snake, but also usually know I can get online and find a better deal. At the show I get a chance to meet the person and see how into it they are, see the snake in person, and other little things, so I am OK with paying a little extra for this, and it helps them with gas money and what not to have even come to the show, so I am personally supportive of shows and the different prices compared to the internet. It is important though to acknowledge these difference and understand them instead of just saying "shows are too high priced" which I have heard a lot of, but there are reasons for this on both the sellers and the buyers side.
unfortunately, this is where I will stop my rant on shows, but if it comes up again I have more to say . Thank you again for pointing out another important point to be made that wasn't referenced before.

At shows around here, every one prices everything around the same price, rarely going lower than one another. But, just chat someone up and suddenly the animals half as much. I wouldn't beat around the bush, price marked will be rock bottom for me.

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[coldbloodaddict]

What about all the Face Book Reptile Auctions that are just giving away animals??? A lot of those animals sell for way less than something listed on KS or Fauna.

Ultimately this means the Buyer is the one who sets the price now, not the Breeders...

I don't particularly care for the auction of animals, but it seems more and more online sales are being made this way so I may have to cave.

[bcr229]

What about all the Face Book Reptile Auctions that are just giving away animals??? A lot of those animals sell for way less than something listed on KS or Fauna.

Ultimately this means the Buyer is the one who sets the price now, not the Breeders...

I don't particularly care for the auction of animals, but it seems more and more online sales are being made this way so I may have to cave.

On the flip side, how many members are in those groups to see the auctions? Fauna has more than 83,000 registered members, and while I'm not a member of KS so I can't see the stats, it's been around for 16 years so I'd bet it is very popular. The busiest FB auction groups run between 3-4,000 members, and I can't keep up with most of them. Granted, the focus is more specialized, with balls, boas, and lizards having their own specific groups, but that's still a pretty small subset of the nationwide market for an auction, thus the price will be lower.

[Neal]

"I" would quietly wholesale them to someone if I were that desperate. There are plenty of breeders out there that have demand for animals they they may not have at the time who would be happy to take them off your hands and make a profit selling to their customers.

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Exactly. I've already spoke to a few breeders in regards if I get backed up with babies or if I have some kind of reason to get rid of stuff fast and we'd agreed that I could always wholesale to them.

Another option would be to list the price and put and put but feel free to make an offer, at least that way it's not public.

[brobertson]

Thanks a million for the response, this will really help me out. I am very fortunate that my parents support my hobby and do not mind helping me out on little thing like my customers writing checks to them. I really appreciate you taking to time to respond!

[Badgemash]

In no time you are left with extremely nice snakes, but no value. Suddenyl you can't sell the snakes you still have either because no one is buying. Now you need a 9-5 to support yourself and your hobby, which you don't care for anymore because you can't make a quick buck off it anymore.

I was with you right up until this point. I am a hobbyist because I love my animals. My snakes are like a magical money pit that I throw cash into and they make it disappear, I doubt I will ever make money off them. In fact I would be thrilled to break even, but that's not what this is about for me. I clean cages every day and buy fancy absorbent liners and herpstats and racks and pay retail for feeders because I like my animals, not because I expect some kind of ROI. In fact I would happily GIVE a snake away for free to someone who will take good care of it, because at the end of the day it's about the well-being of the animal regardless of the morph.

[WtGreg]

In no time you are left with extremely nice snakes, but no value. Suddenyl you can't sell the snakes you still have either because no one is buying. Now you need a 9-5 to support yourself and your hobby, which you don't care for anymore because you can't make a quick buck off it anymore.

I was with you right up until this point. I am a hobbyist because I love my animals. My snakes are like a magical money pit that I throw cash into and they make it disappear, I doubt I will ever make money off them. In fact I would be thrilled to break even, but that's not what this is about for me. I clean cages every day and buy fancy absorbent liners and herpstats and racks and pay retail for feeders because I like my animals, not because I expect some kind of ROI. In fact I would happily GIVE a snake away for free to someone who will take good care of it, because at the end of the day it's about the well-being of the animal regardless of the morph.

You described my experience breeding right there. They do take my money, time, everyday cleaning, basically you described the hobby for me. Any money made goes right back into buying more snakes to get the next project going. Still I love having the snakes even with all they can take. I haven't had an actual strong ROI myself yet when it is broken down. They bring in enough to stay in the hobby for me, but in no way can I actually relate them to a job personally.
If you have ever had to do debate as a large chuck of a college (or any level really) course, one tactic is to argue on a persons level to which they would understand, playing on their level/grounds in a way. The person I was responding to was (in my interpretation) sounding more like a person who was doing this as a living, which questionably could suggest in it for the money just as much as for the snakes so the argument was presented as how it could affect that situation. If you read back, you'll see where it is even suggested the relation of breeding to a 9-5 before I placed my agrument/response you quoted, so that should help clarify my statement.

[Dragoon]

As good a mindset hobbyists have the growth of breeder hobbyists in a reputation based market you will likely see prices fall on many of the morphs. You may just breed for the joy but space limitations and the sheer mass of the animals produced lead to people getting desperate and prices falling. Since the morph side of the animal keeping is heavily breeder oriented, you don't need to go past male and female deserts to see that, you will see severe drops in the prices of base morphs. Well that is my prediction, if that mentality doesn't decrease these low-ballers will likely become more common