How about this idea?

[Tigergenesis]

Well, I just finished reading "Rhacodactylus: The Complete Guide to their Selection and Care" by Philippe de Vosjoli (and others). Seems to be a great book - a bit pricey but some awesome pics. What was really great is that there was a lot of information on cresties.

While reading the care section, I found some interesting ideas that I'd like to see what others think.

First, the book mentioned the ability to create substrate that is biologically active so that it breaks down fecal matter. The authors say they've used it with no substrate replacement for more than 2 years. The substrate is a potting soil mix where the main ingredient is either peat moss or ground fir bark with no perlite. They add 5% sand and 15% fine orchid bark, moisten and add 2-3 layers to the vivarium. They then pat it down ligtly to make the surface firm and add any plants and landscaping. Then to make it a functional bioactive substrate they say to regularly stir the drier surface layer (which includes fecal matter) toward the lower moist layer. This is what allows the development of bacterial and fungal bioactivity that degrades waste matter and keeps the substrate healthy and functional. To keep it active you keep it moistened except for the very surface layer which dries as it's exposed to the air. This is done by light daily spraying and light watering once a week. They say it's basically odorless except for a sweet rich earth smell.

This sounded very interesting to me - and not because I thought I'd get out of spot cleaning (heck it doesn't really sound like less work than spot cleaning). I thought this might be something I'd like to try - provided others think it would be okay to do.

In addition, I was already thinking of using ESU's Jungle Mix Lizard Litter as a substrate. Now I'm wondering if I might be able to use this substrate instead of the mixture mentioned in the book. The ingredients are: sterilized virgin organic soil, fine grain sand, vermiculite, peat moss, orchid bark and green tree moss. It's made for tropical and forest animal species.

At last, the book did talk about mixing species in a natual vivarium. What interested me most was that they've kept African Giant Millipedes in the cage with their cresties for years. The millipedes eat the same as the cresties (fruit, baby food, CGD). They also eat fecal matter and are not harmful to cresties.

So basically, I'm intrigued and would like to explore the bioactive substrate idea with a millipede or 2 - but would like to use the Jungle Mix by ESU. Any thoughts on this? I'm open for suggestions!

[John_White]

I have not read the Rhacodactylus book but don't like the sound of not replacing the substrate. Was the size of the enclosure given in which the "sustainable substrate" was used? I would assume that the enclosure size would have to be fairly large. It would seem as if the risk of infection and parasitic overload would be a major concern in such a set-up.

[Marla]

Tiger, I've thought about doing that as well, but the cresties don't cooperate especially well -- they prefer to p00 on leaves. Aside from that, I think it would essentially be similar to the forest floor, and not especially troublesome or dangerous. Fast, de Vosjoli, and Repashy are about as authoritative sources for crestie info as you'll get anytime soon, and if they feel comfortable making the option known to novice keepers, that's good enough for me. As far as the Jungle Mix, it sounds like a perfectly adequate option to their homemade mix, and if you can handle the millipedes, so much the better. (I don't think I'll ever be brave enough for that. Gators, sure, millipedes, not so much.)

[Tigergenesis]

LOL. I handle millipedes at one of my zoo volunteer jobs, so I'm fine with that. I think I'll definitely use the Jungle Mix, try to make it bioactive but still be on the lookout for crestie poo on the leaves and such. Still undecided about the millipedes though. Have you gotten a look at this book? I really enjoy the pictures.

Also, can a start a young crestie out on the Jungle Mix? I should be getting one at the end of the month (reptile show). It will only be few weeks old.

As always.....thank you!

[Marla]

Yes, I love the book. I got it at the same time I got my cresties (after reading all the care sheets I could find, of course). The photos are great, and I loved reading about the other rhacs. I will definitely leave the millipedes to you, though!

As far as starting out with the Jungle Mix, I'd still recommend starting on paper towels, at least until you're sure he's a competent hunter. After Scooby's mouth full of dirt incident, I'm wary of putting the little ones in with even just 1/2" of loose substrate. Of course, s/he came out of it fine and more trusting of me than the others, but if I hadn't been home or hadn't noticed, it could have been ugly.

I'm looking forward to seeing your crestie and the housing you come up with!