Snake Activity and Frequency of Handling

[WhiteSoxPyro83]

I am posting this thead in hopes of getting some useful feedback (not criticism please) or opinions. My curiosity stems from some responses I recieved in a previous thread, and also from a thread on frequency of handling I just finished reading. First of all, I have to say, I am not a breeder. I own one snake. I own my snake with the purpose and intention of enjoying a pet. My BP is 9 years old; however, I have only owned it for about a year and a half. I inherited my snake from my friend who did an excellent job raising it. In a few ways, my snake seems to go against the norm as far as I can tell from what I have read. I am relatively new to snake ownership; however, I have owned reptiles (iguanas, chameleons) all my life. I may be new to it, but I have done extensive research, and have had over a year hands-on experience now. In other words, I have done a lot of observing and learning the preferences of my particular snake. First, my snake hides and sleeps during the day, but he is VERY active at night(when he is not in shed or not right after eating). This is where I beg to refrain from criticism. I can clearly tell the difference between discomfort and eager activity. I have been refining my husbandry skills, and I think I do and did a pretty good job setting up and maintaining his tank (I am aware of all the preferences with tubs/tanks and the whole screen thing, but I have what I have right now and will probably make a change in the future as I am building him a new enclosure right now...work in progress). My snake loves to come out and explore my room(always under close supervision). I let him do it as frequently as I and my schedule will allow. When he is out, he constantly explores. He loves it. He also loves coming out with me during the summer. I go out with him around my neck, and he seems to love exploring (non fertilized lawns) in the breeze and sun. I love watching him rear up and look like he is on the hunt...it's awesome. Also, another aspect in which I think he goes against the norm is climbing. He loves it. He will eagerly climb anything in his way. Albeit, he is kind of clumsy lol. A lot of threads and comments on here all pertain to owners' and their snakes hiding all the time, and never handling it besides at cleaning time. I cannot fathom this notion. I handle my snake as much as he wants to be handled...and as much as my schedule allows lol...which is probably a few times a week or more...way more in the summer. He loves to be pet...and he recently just started letting me pet under his chin and let me touch his head. He loves the chin thing....just like a dog lol. Basically, (sorry for the rant, just built up thoughts over the past year or so) I just think he goes against the norm as far as activity and handling. Any opinions or thoughts? Concerns? Comments from experienced owners who do not own their snake just to breed or just leave them in tubs? I greatly appreciate all you guys have taught me

[Rickys_Reptiles]

My first Ball Python was named Helix. I took her out every single day. She and I spent many days outside on the grass. Sometimes I'd lie on the floor reading a book while she would explore the room (which was empty at the time). She would let me touch her head, open her mouth and even squeeze her pudgy cheeks. She also climbed a lot.

I felt that she "loved" to be out, exploring. But, what I've learned since then is that she "Tolerated" being touched, and she was more than likely climbing and exploring in order to find a safer place to hide. Snakes are reptiles, and their brains are not capable of emotions the way you are mentioning above.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying your pet and it's nice to hear you love your snake as much as you do. Just don't confuse tolerance with emotions.

[WhiteSoxPyro83]

I see your point, and it's a good one. You know what really grinds my gears? The fact that the major reptile supply manufacturers don't really produce any really good hides for full-grown snakes. I myself am using two dark flower pots turned upside down. I feel they provide a better, more secure hide than anything I have seen on the market. What kind of hides do you guys and gals use for full grown snakes? I am in the process of creating a new enclosure for my snake, and I do feel I can improve on the hides I have currently. However, during the day when Dime is hiding, I do feel that he feels secure, and he hasn't given me any reason to doubt that. When he is active, he is active, and doesn't hide...even when I let him out(and there are plenty of places for him to do so). I understand the whole premise pertaining to a snake being active with the intent of finding a better hide. I just don't feel that is what my snake is doing, but that doesn't mean I can't improve and test those waters. This pet store that is local to me has this really cool, big and deep rock hide that the owner says ins't manufactured anymore. I really wish I could find two just like it. I will take a pic of it the next time I am in there. I know that they don't have emotion like we do, but my snake does just like to be out of his cage when he is active. I have looked at all the major hides on the market, and didn't find one that was either big enough or one I liked. Any recommendations?

[Rickys_Reptiles]

I see your point, and it's a good one. You know what really grinds my gears? The fact that the major reptile supply manufacturers don't really produce any really good hides for full-grown snakes. I myself am using two dark flower pots turned upside down. I feel they provide a better, more secure hide than anything I have seen on the market. What kind of hides do you guys and gals use for full grown snakes? I am in the process of creating a new enclosure for my snake, and I do feel I can improve on the hides I have currently. However, during the day when Dime is hiding, I do feel that he feels secure, and he hasn't given me any reason to doubt that. When he is active, he is active, and doesn't hide...even when I let him out(and there are plenty of places for him to do so). I understand the whole premise pertaining to a snake being active with the intent of finding a better hide. I just don't feel that is what my snake is doing, but that doesn't mean I can't improve and test those waters. This pet store that is local to me has this really cool, big and deep rock hide that the owner says ins't manufactured anymore. I really wish I could find two just like it. I will take a pic of it the next time I am in there. I know that they don't have emotion like we do, but my snake does just like to be out of his cage when he is active. I have looked at all the major hides on the market, and didn't find one that was either big enough or one I liked. Any recommendations?

For my large snakes I used upsideown kitty litter boxes. Walmart sells them for about 10 bux. I'd never use them for my cats as they're just too shalow and the plastic is thin, but cut a hole in it and BAM perfect hide

[Slick Serpents]

I understand what you're saying, i remember when i had one snake and could put all my spare time into him. But as your love for the hobby grows, so does your collection. With a greater amount of snakes it's hard to put a bunch of time into each individual snake (although we all would want to). But as Rickys_Reptiles said, you learn that your snake just tolerates you and is looking for a more secure place to hide.
Also, i don't know of any "owners who do not own their snake just to breed or just leave them in tubs."I think everyone who is in the breeding world of this hobby loves their snakes as much as someone who only has one snake.
I'm glad you enjoy your ball python, and you do engage in different activities with him.

[WhiteSoxPyro83]

I will never get another snake. I never intended on getting this one. He is much more than a snake to me.

[rossi46]

You know what really grinds my gears? The fact that the major reptile supply manufacturers don't really produce any really good hides for full-grown snakes... I have looked at all the major hides on the market, and didn't find one that was either big enough or one I liked. Any recommendations?

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes



These come highly, highly recommended.

[WhiteSoxPyro83]

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxesyeah I did see these...just seemed a little too plain for my aesthetic side, but I realize functionality is a little more important. I do like it. Thanks a bunch.



These come highly, highly recommended.

[WhiteSoxPyro83]

I am not trying to sound disrespectful or anything, but how do you guys know pythons do not have emotions? Have you ever been a ball python? Do you know him? Does he call you at home? Do you have a dorsal fin??? lol. To train the dolphin you must think like the dolphin! lol...but seriously...how do you know they don't have emotions? I have seen my snake exhibit what seems like excitement...and I have also seen videos of pissed off, angry snakes. I would call anger an emotion.? no?

[nachash]

These arguments pop up from time to time.

Okay, we know reptiles do not have mammalian emotions just on the basis of how the reptilian brain works. Beyond that, emotions as you are talking about are socially applied emotions. Sure, all complex organisms have conceptions of contentment and pain, irritation, so on. But social emotions are behaviors that had to evolve within a species to balance inter-species competition with intra-species competition.

For instance, a tiger probably has emotions, but we know it doesn't crave attention by virtue of being a solitary animal. Lions on the other hand, are very social and usually die or face extreme hardship living alone. So even IF a snake had emotions of a kind recognizable to humans, why on Earth would these emotions be generated for companionship when everything about a snake's lifestyle screams solitary?

Dogs, Cockatoos, Cats, Sugar Gliders, ferrets, so on are companion animals because they imprint on their owners and depend on them for intellectual stimulation. Your snake did not imprint on you, and we know this because if you give it away the behaviors it demonstrates will not change like it would for a dog or cat.

Basically, animal behaviors are the result of a complex evolutionary process that usually selects against animals with detrimental behaviors. A snake that seeks attention is one that seeks to be eaten.
Has anyone heard about the phenomenon of silent rattlesnakes? All the hunters find the snakes via the sound they make, so the surviving snakes are selected to have preferences for not rattling. This is how much snakes don't want attention.
Personification is a powerful illusion, but don't mistake what it is