odd spider

[interloc]

Not a spider. Hands down. No argument here. Why people are calling it a spider, I will never know. NONE of the spider markers are there. Wrong color, wrong pattern, wrong head.

Now if we are talking about it being a COMBO then maybe the spider gene are in there. Nothing I've seen can mess with the spider gene like the black head gene. Usually the spider gene in 2 gene animals, beats the pattern of the snake into submission. No questioning the spider gene being present. The black head seems to almost erase the spider gene. So maybe the "normal" is a black head/black headish morph.

In this particular case I think the "normal" parent to this snake needs to be shown. That's the only way we can bring this moot argument to a close. Please post a pic of the "normal" parent. Until that is posted, this snake is not a spider or spider combo.

Lastly, when did we start calling "dinkers" morphs BEFORE they were proven. At the very VERY least (yes even major leagues "spider" combos) its a normal until it pops out a baby spider when this was the only snake in the pairing with the spider gene present. When breeders start guessing what's in combos and selling them, we start getting into scams and lying. That's not something we need in this or any other hobby. Come on people have some integrity.

That is all.

[Archimedes]

I'd go with breeding trials, personally.

[RoseyReps]

Maybe I just need a more experienced eye, but I'm still not seeing single gene spider. I've never seen a spider with alien heads like a normal, but I don't claim to be a morph expert by any means. I just calls it as I sees it.

I see what you mean about those 2-3 white scales, but is that really enough to say spider?
Do you honestly think that head stamp is reminiscent of a single gene spider?

Here are some pics of two of my normal girls, the others are currently "busy"

Albeit they don't have 2-3 white scales higher up, they have white speckling creeping up in their pattern. Is this normal but the 2-3 white scales in the pattern spider indicators? (I'm not trying to be a jerk, I am honestly wondering Brent.)

Some of these are in the shade, some in direct sun, couldn't decide which showed the whites better...



an indoor crappy pics...wiggle worm...

[majorleaguereptiles]

Not a spider. Hands down. No argument here. Why people are calling it a spider, I will never know. NONE of the spider markers are there. Wrong color, wrong pattern, wrong head.

Now if we are talking about it being a COMBO then maybe the spider gene are in there. Nothing I've seen can mess with the spider gene like the black head gene. Usually the spider gene in 2 gene animals, beats the pattern of the snake into submission. No questioning the spider gene being present. The black head seems to almost erase the spider gene. So maybe the "normal" is a black head/black headish morph.

In this particular case I think the "normal" parent to this snake needs to be shown. That's the only way we can bring this moot argument to a close. Please post a pic of the "normal" parent. Until that is posted, this snake is not a spider or spider combo.

Lastly, when did we start calling "dinkers" morphs BEFORE they were proven. At the very VERY least (yes even major leagues "spider" combos) its a normal until it pops out a baby spider when this was the only snake in the pairing with the spider gene present. When breeders start guessing what's in combos and selling them, we start getting into scams and lying. That's not something we need in this or any other hobby. Come on people have some integrity.

That is all.

First, blackhead spiders have already proven to pop out spiders. Maybe, spiders and blackheads are allelic? Hmm, you wouldn't know anything about that would you? I have 3 generations of spider blackhead information that really nobody would know about besides 2 people.

Second, the snake the OP posted REALLY has spider in it. I chimed in to hopefully educate some folks that just because it doesn't look like YOUR spider or the spider's you have seen, there are some people who have seen spiders like this. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine.

Lastly, to question someone's "integrity" in the mix is unappropriate. I guess I shouldn't come on here and try to share what I know. I didn't sell this snake, I just came on here to say it was a spider based on my experience. Which you obviously know nothing about.

OP, please post future breedings of this snake and it's results. Should be interesting. I've seen some spider het tristripes that look pretty brutal on the spider scale. Typically making them solid, thick, blackback animals, with no white.

[interloc]

Maybe I just need a more experienced eye, but I'm still not seeing single gene spider. I've never seen a spider with alien heads like a normal, but I don't claim to be a morph expert by any means. I just calls it as I sees it.

I see what you mean about those 2-3 white scales, but is that really enough to say spider?
Do you honestly think that head stamp is reminiscent of a single gene spider?

Here are some pics of two of my normal girls, the others are currently "busy"

Albeit they don't have 2-3 white scales higher up, they have white speckling creeping up in their pattern. Is this normal but the 2-3 white scales in the pattern spider indicators? (I'm not trying to be a jerk, I am honestly wondering Brent.)

Some of these are in the shade, some in direct sun, couldn't decide which showed the whites better...



an indoor crappy pics...wiggle worm...

Someone with some sense. Woo! There are still some on this site.

[peterneish]

Het spider


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RoseyReps]

I called you brent rather than Brant, I apologize.

I enjoy when you challenge the masses, just like skip and wes. It makes us (or me at least) think twice about jumping to conclusions. I am not trying to belittle your opinion, I just would like clarification. So you keep mentioning black head spiders, but that is irrelevant to the snake posted is it not? Or, are you suggesting that perhaps it's another blackhead-like morph in the mix making this look like a normalish snake?

OP: Were there any standard looking spiders in this clutch? Was the sire a standard looking spider? Did the mother look remarkable at all?

I would be interested to see what this little one pops out, when that day arrives.

[majorleaguereptiles]

RoseyReps,
It's the completely solid white scale. Thats a genetic trait. and White means White, not ivory, or yellow, or 1/2 white, and typically it stands out from it's surrounding scales. Like it shouldn't be there.... if that makes sense. My eyes see it, but again I closely evaluate 40,000 snakes a year, so thats my own experience. I think the next closest person in the world might see around 12,000? There is a reason why many of the largest breeders from Ralph Davis to Ben Renick ask me, what I see in something they mak, or to help piece a puzzle together, because I've actually proven to be good at it time and time again. Something obviously people on BP.net don't appreciate like Ralph or Ben would.

The OP really needs to show a belly pic. I think that would help give some perspective.

And my name is Brant, not Brent

[interloc]

First, blackhead spiders have already proven to pop out spiders. Maybe, spiders and blackheads are allelic? Hmm, you wouldn't know anything about that would you? I have 3 generations of spider blackhead information that really nobody would know about besides 2 people.

Second, the snake the OP posted REALLY has spider in it. I chimed in to hopefully educate some folks that just because it doesn't look like YOUR spider or the spider's you have seen, there are some people who have seen spiders like this. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine.

Lastly, to question someone's "integrity" in the mix is unappropriate. I guess I shouldn't come on here and try to share what I know. I didn't sell this snake, I just came on here to say it was a spider based on my experience. Which you obviously know nothing about.

OP, please post future breedings of this snake and it's results. Should be interesting. I've seen some spider het tristripes that look pretty brutal on the spider scale. Typically making them solid, thick, blackback animals, with no white.

I already know about the black heads doing crazy things to spiders. I'm unfamiliar with spider het tri stripe. I'm not doubting that.

Now. Op said spider x normal. Those are the 2 genes we are to work with when assessing this snake. With those criteria then its a normal.

How can you accurately say the snake REALLY has spider in it? Have you seen the snake in person? Did you do DNA analysis on it? It's next to impossible for you to say "YES 100% spider". The reason I can say its not is 2 fold. One, it doesn't look like a spider. Spiders are a COLOUR and PATTERN snake. Neither of which this snake has. The amount of white is random so it's not a good marker. Second. A snake that's genetics are questioned is a normal until proven otherwise. I have a "dinker" that I know the lineage of and I know it looks remarkably similar to a known morph (one you work with actually) but I can't say that it is that morph until I prove the genetics.

It seems like your knowledge of spider black heads and spider het tri stripe is more extensive than me. That's fine. I don't have those genes. If you are so certain that that snake is a spider black head or spider het tri stripe, I challenge you to purchase that snake off the OP for the price of those high end combos if you are so certain. I mean what have you got to loose.

On another note. If people keep buying low quality morphs and breeding the crap out of them, there will be some ugly combos in the future. When people say "rate my morph" I think we should say, "it's crap, don't breed it!" Nobody does that. We are all trying to be too nice. IF (biggest if ever) this snake is a spider, it is hands down the ugliest spider I have ever seen and should never be bred. Now that's my opinion and I'm sure people will disagree but hey, it's a free country.

[peterneish]

First, blackhead spiders have already proven to pop out spiders. Maybe, spiders and blackheads are allelic? Hmm, you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

Does this sound a little patronising?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk