odd spider

[zeion97]

Would it be impossible for the breeder to contact the person he sold it too and request pictures?

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

X2

Also, I thought hidden gene woma was just a "scam" xan someone shed light on

[JLC]

X2

Also, I thought hidden gene woma was just a "scam" xan someone shed light on

Not a scam, but a confusing morph mix-up when first discovered. There were two different snakes that both looked "woma". But the two different womas were throwing different-looking babies. One woma's babies had the reduced pattern characteristic that would be expected, but the other woma was throwing some crazy stuff. So that second woma was believed to be carrying a "hidden gene" that was becoming visible when mixed into combos.

After more breeding, it turns out to be a single gene that is different from the other, "plain" woma gene...but the name "hidden gene woma" stuck.

[zeion97]

Not a scam, but a confusing morph mix-up when first discovered. There were two different snakes that both looked "woma". But the two different womas were throwing different-looking babies. One woma's babies had the reduced pattern characteristic that would be expected, but the other woma was throwing some crazy stuff. So that second woma was believed to be carrying a "hidden gene" that was becoming visible when mixed into combos.

After more breeding, it turns out to be a single gene that is different from the other, "plain" woma gene...but the name "hidden gene woma" stuck.

Thank you Judy.

[tikigator]

Yes woma and hidden gene woma are 2 totally different morphs. Just like axanthic and red axanthic are totally different.

At least he's a male and ready to breed! Good luck OP can someone tell me how to subscribe to this thread? TY!

[JLC]

At least he's a male and ready to breed! Good luck OP can someone tell me how to subscribe to this thread? TY!

Anytime you reply to a thread (or start one) you are automatically subscribed to it.

If you ever wish to subscribe to a thread without participating in it, you'll find a link at the top of the thread, near the title that says, "Thread Tools". Click on that, and you'll get a menu that lets you click on an option to subscribe to the thread.

[John Woolard]

I haven't posted here in a while, but I would like to chime in on a couple of things that I believe are very important for clarification...so please bear with me, it's a bit lengthy.

My position is not to side with anyone or to tell the OP whether or not the animal in question has the spider gene, though I believe it likely may, but rather to say that it's imperative that we, as ball python breeders, not discount subtle differences we see in our snakes too quickly...especially if we want to capitalize on the genetics that may be at play.

Having produced multiple black head spider combinations this past season, I can say, with certainty, that no one could have predicted how these combos would look when the genes were stacked together. From the start I knew I had something different when these snakes hatched, but I didn't know what exactly they were and neither did anyone else. I shared these snakes, both in person and through pictures, with some of the most recognized breeders here in the U.S. and even they didn't know what these animals were.

It wasn't too long after this that Brant Rustich cracked the code on Ralph's black head spider, thereby confirming that the animals I was holding back were variations of the black head spider combination. Brant & I each had our own research on the project, but it was his attention to minor details that made the difference. This was significant for all those who were invested in the project and for those who wish to get into black heads in the future. It's so bizarre, even now, but it's a testament to the never ending opportunity to learn...we just have to be open to having our previously held beliefs challenged.
I promise you I look at ball pythons differently now than I have in the past and I imagine the OP will as well when this all plays out (whatever happens).

Before moving forward, let me preface this by saying that I think the hidden gene woma project is awesome -with a lot of potential to make extreme combos. Unfortunately, however, there are still assumptions, confusion and, perhaps most important, mislabeled photos that contribute to conflicting information that may result in dead animals and major setbacks in people's projects. I know this isn't what the OP started the thread about, but since it was brought up I did want to address it.

Speaking from personal experience and first hand knowledge of others, the HGW spider combination is lethal. Last season, in a joint project with Tom Harbin, we produced 5 HGW spider combos (pearls) that were all train wrecks. It was horrible and what's even worse is that we weren't the only ones who experienced this.

I won't speak for other breeders here without their consent (though a quick search should take you to other sources on this topic), but those of you who know me, know I'm transparent and how I don't shy away from sharing what's really happening with projects (e.g. desert females). While Tom and I made some fantastic HGW combos, we took a huge hit by breeding our HGWYB male to various spider combo females. We not only wasted valuable females, but we lost a ton of time we can never get back.

I'm sure there are people who will say they've had successful clutches of HGW spider combos, just like there are people still selling desert females to people and claiming they'll reproduce. Sure, it could happen someday -maybe, but why risk it? Again, I'm not saying any of this to take away from the HGW project, but rather to save people time, money, and animals. Tom and I are looking to expand our HGW projects- we just won't be including the spider gene with the HGW ever again.

The more we can share and learn from each other the better it is for everyone.
I wish you all a great season and if I can help in anyway- I'm always more than willing.
John

[Mrhappytreats4u]

Ok a little update....I gave him away this year to a friend along with the normal he locked up with a couple times but she was also paired with my lesser...she will be laying in a couple weeks so once eggs are layed and hatched I will post pics if they are anything different than a lesser or or a normal...also I do have some recent pics of him right before I got rid of him that are better quality I will load here shortly

[sho220]

Ok a little update....I gave him away this year to a friend along with the normal he locked up with a couple times but she was also paired with my lesser...she will be laying in a couple weeks so once eggs are layed and hatched I will post pics if they are anything different than a lesser or or a normal...also I do have some recent pics of him right before I got rid of him that are better quality I will load here shortly

Thanks for keeping up with this thread. I'd be interested in seeing the outcome...

[Mrhappytreats4u]

[sho220]

Man...what a cool looking snake...