Building new Wooden Cages lots of questions.

[Dark Lady Kat]

I am about to undertake building all new wooden enclosures for the boas and balls. I would like suggestions on heating the all wood w/ plexiglass sliding door enclosures. I am thinking I will go with RHP from ReptileBasics I am working with one of the guys there on exact sizes but we are aiming for the 80w for the balls that will be in 4'x2'x18" enclosures and 120w for the boas that will be in 6'x2'x18" enclosures however I am finding varying information on rather or not this will maintain the temp gradient needed most of the bad reviews are in pvc cages will the wooden enclosure hold the temp gradient better. Also for the RHP do you recommend proportional or on/off style thermostats I am considering it will be better to hook each thermostat individually to each cage rather than one thermostat to control all RHP. If the RHP will not be sufficient should I also use belly heat in the form of an intellimat or flexwatt heat tape. my average room temp varies according to the season but generally between 65-75. for day night cycle we are going to use standard under cabinet mounting florescent one on either side of the cage with a white light and a black night for night viewing. We are trying to keep everything internal as these cages will be stacked. Substrate will be reptibark as we have found it to be the easiest to clean as well as less messier than aspen. We are also debating swing open doors or sliding doors so far everything we have found would suggest that sliding doors are more reliable at keeping the snakes in as they do not warp over time like the swing open would near the middle from being pushed on from the inside over time.
Also when treating the wood prior to building the cage what water sealant is best or should we paint with latex paint to make it easier to clean and more water resistant. with the RHP would it be better to mount it centered in each cage or off to one side. Also if I set the RHP to 90 degrees and place the probe directly under it will that be a sufficient thermostat heat setting. I have a pretty decent sized budget for this expenditure and am hoping to set everything up with optimal management of heat humidity and overall clean look of things. I do not like the animal plastics or the boaphiles for several different reasons but main one is simply just my taste I prefer the look of wood we will have only 8 snakes and do not intend to get more than that 5 are already here and I will be buying 1 more boa and 2 more balls with in a couple of years and duplicating DIY cages is much easier than ensuring that a company is still carrying your exact cage. Each cage will also have its own sonic mister.

To recap from my large explanation and paragraph of questions

RHP?'s
1. 80w for the 4'x2'x18" and 120w for the 6'x2'x18" enclosures - Is this sufficient or do I need another heat source to maintain the gradient in a cooler room? - heating the room not an option
2. Mount RHP centered or to one side? - for best results overall
3. do you recommend proportional or on/off style thermostats? Why or Why not please?

Doors
1. Is sliding glass or swing open better for long term use with minimal replacement?

Thermostats
1. What temp would you set the RHP to on an on/off?
2. What temp would you set the RHP to on a proportional?

Treating or Painting wood?
1. What would you treat the wood first with as a sealant?
2. If no sealant would a latex paint be better for cleaning and uping the water resistance?

Lighting?
1. Would it be ok to use under cabinet mounting lights one with a white bulb one with a black bulb for day night cycle and night viewing? Why or Why not? Alternative suggestions?

[norwegn113]

im gonna try and answer your question in the order you asked. let me start by saying that i am very familiar with all the equiptment you asked about because i just finished building almost the exact cages that you are describing. i built 5) ball python cages at 2x2x4 and 2 boa cages at 2x2x7. ok RHP 80watt for 4x2x18 is the perfect size( a bit over kill but no problem on a thermostat.120 for 6x2x18 is also a good size. i use 88w in 4x2x2 , and 135w in 7x2x2. my temps on the hot side are 86deg. ambiant ,92 deg baskingand 79deg. cool side. Mount the heat panel off to one side, about 6" from the edge this will create a good gradiant. Either proportional or on/off thermostats will work but proportional will give you a much more even and accurate temp. Doors.... definately glass sliding doors. Swing doors tend to want to warp leaving an easy escape, also its nice not to have to keep moving out of the way of swinging doors! Thermostats....the temps would be set the same in either proportional or on/off mode but when you use on/off mode its the "swing" setting that is important.On herpstats you can set how much of a temp swing you want. I personally have my probe set on the cool side at 79deg. this way i am able to give my animals optimal heat gradiants.They will self regulate if you give them the right temps. Treating the wood.... use several coats of polyurathane! it is by far the best thing to seal out moisture.Caulk all seals after poly dries. allow enough time for caulk to cure and all fumes to ventalate

[norwegn113]

lighting.... you can use undercabinet fluorescent lights but i am not a big fan of having a light on at night, I just worry it will disturb their sleep cycle. Another possiblity for lighting is LED strip lights. I used them in my cage and love them . They are very low profile, minimal heat build up, and very cheap to run. The quality of light is amazing, the colors of my snakes just "POP" ! I hope i answered all your questions and that i helped you?

[Dark Lady Kat]

im gonna try and answer your question in the order you asked. let me start by saying that i am very familiar with all the equiptment you asked about because i just finished building almost the exact cages that you are describing. i built 5) ball python cages at 2x2x4 and 2 boa cages at 2x2x7. ok RHP 80watt for 4x2x18 is the perfect size( a bit over kill but no problem on a thermostat.120 for 6x2x18 is also a good size. i use 88w in 4x2x2 , and 135w in 7x2x2. my temps on the hot side are 86deg. ambiant ,92 deg baskingand 79deg. cool side. Mount the heat panel off to one side, about 6" from the edge this will create a good gradiant. Either proportional or on/off thermostats will work but proportional will give you a much more even and accurate temp. Doors.... definately glass sliding doors. Swing doors tend to want to warp leaving an easy escape, also its nice not to have to keep moving out of the way of swinging doors! Thermostats....the temps would be set the same in either proportional or on/off mode but when you use on/off mode its the "swing" setting that is important.On herpstats you can set how much of a temp swing you want. I personally have my probe set on the cool side at 79deg. this way i am able to give my animals optimal heat gradiants.They will self regulate if you give them the right temps. Treating the wood.... use several coats of polyurathane! it is by far the best thing to seal out moisture.Caulk all seals after poly dries. allow enough time for caulk to cure and all fumes to ventalate

Sounds good a bit over kill is ok with me as it will be on a thermostat and my home temps can get pretty low especially in the few months of winter we get here and evening desert drops. I am considering the herpstat intro since I want each cage to have its own thermostat or possible the herpstat 2 since it will allow humidity control as well http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753198&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS%2FNo is what I am looking to use for humidity since I am in west texas and our summers are extremely dry. Opinions? is Polyurathane a paint on? and how much would it take to cover 8 cages 4 4x2x18 and 4 6x2x18

[Dark Lady Kat]

lighting.... you can use undercabinet fluorescent lights but i am not a big fan of having a light on at night, I just worry it will disturb their sleep cycle. Another possiblity for lighting is LED strip lights. I used them in my cage and love them . They are very low profile, minimal heat build up, and very cheap to run. The quality of light is amazing, the colors of my snakes just "POP" ! I hope i answered all your questions and that i helped you?

If not black light what would you recommend for night viewing? We are up pretty long hours compared to their day night cycle the black light would be shut off once we actually went to bed as 8 cages in my room running the entire length of one wall leaving them on would be a bit bright for my liking - my bedroom is a converted garage so taking 2 foot off of the length not really an issue

[norwegn113]

I have to be honest, I am not familiar with the ultrasonic fogger you posted or how it works so i cant give you an opinion about it. I am using a Pro-mist system from Pro-products on a short cycle duration timer. It works well for me. I also use their radiant heat panels, they have the best warranty in the business (10 years on their panels, 4 years on the mist pump.) Yes the poly is a brush on application and for 8 cages I would say you would need about 2 gallons. I like the water based poly by Varathane. Quick question, instead of getting 8 separate thermostats why don't you just get 2) Herpstat4, one for the 4 foot cages and one for the 6 foot cages? One unit will monitor 4 separate cages.

[Dark Lady Kat]

I have to be honest, I am not familiar with the ultrasonic fogger you posted or how it works so i cant give you an opinion about it. I am using a Pro-mist system from Pro-products on a short cycle duration timer. It works well for me. I also use their radiant heat panels, they have the best warranty in the business (10 years on their panels, 4 years on the mist pump.) Yes the poly is a brush on application and for 8 cages I would say you would need about 2 gallons. I like the water based poly by Varathane. Quick question, instead of getting 8 separate thermostats why don't you just get 2) Herpstat4, one for the 4 foot cages and one for the 6 foot cages? One unit will monitor 4 separate cages.

I have been tossing that idea around as well with the herpstat 4 but then would need 4 herpstat 4's 2 for heat and 2 for misting/humidity, I looked into the pro-mist but it seemed like alot of work especially since I want the cages to stack but I also would like each unit to run on its own another reason that I am considering spending the extra money to get the herpstat intro or herpstat 2 for each cage. Working on the safer than sorry method of if something went wrong in one cage it would be wrong in multiples if they where all connected. Like one misting system for all cages if for some reason the water got contaminated everyone would be contaminated if the misting system failed and just made a mess then I have 8 messes to clean up

The ultra sonic mister requires a small cup or water dish to be placed in and it periodically much like an aerator for aquariums will turn some of the water into a fine mist I currently have one in my daughters leopard gecko cage and it works great the mist is super fine and if not on a regulator then you can set it to a timer and it works just as well my daughters is on a basic timer and it goes off once an hour for 5 seconds and it maintains a 60% humidity if set on low it produces this small thin mist layer kinda like morning dew

[norwegn113]

that sounds like a great product.

[kitedemon]

RHP?'s
1. 80w for the 4'x2'x18" and 120w for the 6'x2'x18" enclosures - Is this sufficient or do I need another heat source to maintain the gradient in a cooler room? - heating the room not an option

It is unlikely a RHP or UTH will be enough you will need something to heat the air, as both radiant heat panels and Radiant heat tape heat air some sort of light system will likely be needed.

2. Mount RHP centered or to one side? - for best results overall
Why RHPs at all? I would suggest that if you forego the wood bottom and use PVC as a bottom. It is durable, easily cleaned, waterproof, and heats through very well so a traditional UTH could be used that eliminates some of the issues with RHPs (like safe probe placement and min distances most say 18-22 inches)

3. do you recommend proportional or on/off style thermostats? Why or Why not please?

Proportional, if you have a cool room on off types tend to have heat spikes and larger amounts of swing the accuracy is also at least 1/2 that of the proportional units and in some cases 1/4.

Doors
1. Is sliding glass or swing open better for long term use with minimal replacement?

Swing open doors are difficult to do with glass. Sliding doors are easier to use glass with although they are heavy and fragile and can be costly. Plexi scratches easily but is easier to work with and lighter. 50/50 there is no clear advantage one over the other pick what is easiest.

Thermostats
1. What temp would you set the RHP to on an on/off?
2. What temp would you set the RHP to on a proportional?

No one can say it depends on the ambient temps. I have used RHPs and would simply not bother unless I was using an arboreal enclosure. The gradient is mush easier to hold vertically than horizontally. Most of the panels on the market have min distances that are taller than you planned enclosures some choose to experiment with under this but I personally would not suggest it.

Treating or Painting wood?
1. What would you treat the wood first with as a sealant?
2. If no sealant would a latex paint be better for cleaning and uping the water resistance?

The toughest and most resistant to water would be marine epoxy, hardest to work with too. Liner polyurethane paints would be next but they too are very difficult to work with. Not to mention wicked expensive (100$ a quart last time I used any) regular polyurethane would be next, then modified urethanes (water based) latex on the bottom. Remember to bake the paint for a few days at 80º to force out gassing I would allow at least 7 days to fully cure and longer until I could smell no paint smell at all.

Lighting?
1. Would it be ok to use under cabinet mounting lights one with a white bulb one with a black bulb for day night cycle and night viewing? Why or Why not? Alternative suggestions?

I would use a FL under cabinet light white during the day but NEVER use black lights at all. Although Royal pythons have UV protection on the spectacle scale and it is not a big part of their visual spectrum you don't. Black lights have UVa,b and c. This is why people were sunglasses with UV protection, melanoma is linked to UVc It is not good for YOU. i would look to blue lights but NOT blacklight regular blue coloured LED or Blue gel over white but not a 'blacklight' bulb.

[/QUOTE]

[Dark Lady Kat]

RHP?'s

2. Mount RHP centered or to one side? - for best results overall
Why RHPs at all? I would suggest that if you forego the wood bottom and use PVC as a bottom. It is durable, easily cleaned, waterproof, and heats through very well so a traditional UTH could be used that eliminates some of the issues with RHPs (like safe probe placement and min distances most say 18-22 inches)

Do not mount the panel in such a way that the lens is closer than 6 inches from a cage surface Quote from reptile basics RHP q&a
which panels are you referencing that require a larger distance the ones I am considering from reptile basics have a safety feature built in as well as only recommend a 6 in minimum distance and it will be over a foot of distance

I am not trying to argue with you but I would like references as there are many out there that recommend the RHP and many that have great success with it heating the overall enclosure especially with all wood a pvc bottom is not an option and using external heat tape as they will be stacked

1. 80w for the 4'x2'x18" and 120w for the 6'x2'x18" enclosures - Is this sufficient or do I need another heat source to maintain the gradient in a cooler room? - heating the room not an option

It is unlikely a RHP or UTH will be enough you will need something to heat the air, as both radiant heat panels and Radiant heat tape heat air some sort of light system will likely be needed.

What sort of lighting system I currently have 2 4x2x2 cages and they take 3 lights apiece top mount for an ambient of only 78 and hot spot of 92 and that has to be 12" from under the hottest of lights and are all top mount. I am looking to move everything internal so that I can stack cages.

Lighting?
1. Would it be ok to use under cabinet mounting lights one with a white bulb one with a black bulb for day night cycle and night viewing? Why or Why not? Alternative suggestions?

I would use a FL under cabinet light white during the day but NEVER use black lights at all. Although Royal pythons have UV protection on the spectacle scale and it is not a big part of their visual spectrum you don't. Black lights have UVa,b and c. This is why people were sunglasses with UV protection, melanoma is linked to UVc It is not good for YOU. i would look to blue lights but NOT blacklight regular blue coloured LED or Blue gel over white but not a 'blacklight' bulb.

What kind of blue gel?

- - - Updated - - -

RHP?'s

2. Mount RHP centered or to one side? - for best results overall
Why RHPs at all? I would suggest that if you forego the wood bottom and use PVC as a bottom. It is durable, easily cleaned, waterproof, and heats through very well so a traditional UTH could be used that eliminates some of the issues with RHPs (like safe probe placement and min distances most say 18-22 inches)

Do not mount the panel in such a way that the lens is closer than 6 inches from a cage surface Quote from reptile basics RHP q&a
which panels are you referencing that require a larger distance the ones I am considering from reptile basics have a safety feature built in as well as only recommend a 6 in minimum distance and it will be over a foot of distance

I am not trying to argue with you but I would like references as there are many out there that recommend the RHP and many that have great success with it heating the overall enclosure especially with all wood a pvc bottom is not an option and using external heat tape as they will be stacked

1. 80w for the 4'x2'x18" and 120w for the 6'x2'x18" enclosures - Is this sufficient or do I need another heat source to maintain the gradient in a cooler room? - heating the room not an option

It is unlikely a RHP or UTH will be enough you will need something to heat the air, as both radiant heat panels and Radiant heat tape heat air some sort of light system will likely be needed.

What sort of lighting system I currently have 2 4x2x2 cages and they take 3 lights apiece top mount for an ambient of only 78 and hot spot of 92 and that has to be 12" from under the hottest of lights and are all top mount. I am looking to move everything internal so that I can stack cages.

Lighting?
1. Would it be ok to use under cabinet mounting lights one with a white bulb one with a black bulb for day night cycle and night viewing? Why or Why not? Alternative suggestions?

I would use a FL under cabinet light white during the day but NEVER use black lights at all. Although Royal pythons have UV protection on the spectacle scale and it is not a big part of their visual spectrum you don't. Black lights have UVa,b and c. This is why people were sunglasses with UV protection, melanoma is linked to UVc It is not good for YOU. i would look to blue lights but NOT blacklight regular blue coloured LED or Blue gel over white but not a 'blacklight' bulb.

What kind of blue gel?