Building new Wooden Cages lots of questions.

[kitedemon]

You are correct that radiant heat goes against the industry standard because it is still a very new product and many people still are not using it because of a few factors. (1) the cost is MUCH higher than a heat lamp and bulb.... Initially ,but heat lamps burn out and lose intensity in time. manufacturers recommend changing these bulbs once a year and @ roughly $10.00 ea/100W in 10 years that's $100.00 ( the cost of my panel to start with, plus the initial cost of the lamp itself. We wont even talk about electric savings in a 10 year period when you're talking about 100W VS 88W per hour.(2) Many people do not understand the way radiant heat works and because it cant be measured using standard techniques they automatically assume that the product is not doing what it is supposed to, when in fact it is working just fine!! Using Flexwatt as an UTH is not the same as using RHP. UTH only warms the ground directly on top of its location, therefore leaving the rest of the tanks ambient air too cool. Flexwatt in most applications is used in conjunction with some sort of CHE or heat lamp to warm air temps. If you just warm the ground under the animal and the air temps are not correct you are leaving yourself open to RI's You are very limited to the temps that you can set your UTH at due to the fact that your animal is laying on top of it! RHP mount on the top of the cage and other than the occasional "brush up against" your animal will never come in contact with it and your animal definitely can't lay on it, so the temps can run much higher than a UTH. So you will only need 1 piece of equipment vs 2.Every scientific break through is plagued with its nay Sayers because people are afraid of change and like what they feel comfortable with. I personally use RHP and can tell you without a doubt that they work excellently for my ball Pythons. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but Just because one person doesn't like them doesn't mean the product is junk. I'm sure Zoo-Med will love your continued support over the next 25 years of your animals life, me I'm gonna take my savings and buy some really cool morphs!

Clearly you didn't read what I said correctly. I said that locating a hot spot and hide in a different location is not the way any care sheet or any authority suggests perhaps you should read a few your self as you clearly have not based on the pictures you posted. Hides are best located on the hot and cool spots so the snake does not need to choose between thermoregulating and security. Many snakes will not and remain in a secure area and not regulate at all stop feeding, digesting and die.

It also is clear that you do not understand what radiant heat is how it works or what it does. This describes radiant heat very simply. It is the little sun icon... http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...aspx?ID=sce304

It is what 4.6 billion years old now... Yup that is new. They have been in the hobby for what 20 years? New? I guess if 4.6 billion is. Radiant heat does not heat air. You speak like you believe there is a huge difference between Radiant floor heating and radiant ceiling heating. The difference is in the ceiling closer you are to the panel the hotter it gets. The floor the farther you are away the cooler it gets. The hot spot is set to the correct temp and with overhead it drops as you move away from this. perfect for arboreal snakes, green tree pythons for example you set the hot spot for the top most branches and the lower branches drop in temp. Exactly correct. You seem to believe that setting for the floor and having anything not on the floor over the ideal is correct. The fact is a momentary touch is not a problem true but a core temp of 104º causes permanent neurological damage. There should not be any way for a snake to get between the probe and heat source. This creates a problem with terrestrial enclosures where to place and secure the probe it cannot move but also cannot be on the floor. The best location would be glued to the face? the wall? Both will generate false positive and result in variable temps beyond the expected range.

You seem to think that RHPs use some magic method of heating when the truth is they use a carbon resistive film, heat tape, is a carbon resistive film (flexwatt) so the flexwatt in the RHP and under an enclosure are the same. The end result on ambient temps are ... the same. They both heat objects that in turn heat the air. You photo has what seems to be a block of stone perhaps that is what is heating your air temp if there were a UTH under it the result would be exactly the same. RHP were designed to heat arboreal enclosures and simply do not perform being adapted to terrestrial. I never said they didn't work just that they are not as efficient (UTH has less loss as it heats exactly what needs to be heated) and costly compared in the terrestrial set up.

Your discussion of cost savings... flexwatt is 5$ for a one foot piece and using less power. So in my estimation you spent more heating the enclosure with a RHP and higher initial price is far far higher 12 times or so. I'll take my savings and buy a good thermometer. I guess you are using a (in) accurite as a non standard way? What standard is I can't imagine. You do know your model is spec'd at +/-2ºC (just under 4ºF up or down). I measure my RHP with a ultrafast response Platinum tip RTD I can accurately measure the output of the panel directly and ambient air temps with a 'standard' shaded measurement. I am not an accountant but I figure higher initial cost (60$/40w RHP and 5$/10w heat tape.) and higher operational cost is ahhh higher cost.?

YOU DON"T HAVE A THERMOSTAT!!!! The single most important part of any and all heating systems. This is not suggested by any manufacturer of RHPs it is also not recommended by any knowledgeable keeper!


RHPs run easily to 190º mine at 14 inches during testing hit 137º this is too hot. ALL heat sources need to be regulated.

Reptile basics instructions on RHPs "If your RHP is properly set up on a thermostat you will not generally see even these temperatures"

helix controls "We recommend using a high quality thermostat, especially if the panel is to be used in an enclosed environment. A Helix Proportional Thermostat, such as the DBS-1000"

You are the only person mentioning heat lamps or CHEs. I would not suggest using either unless there was no better options, and I would never suggest a red heat lamp under any circumstances due to the nature of heat hunting snakes.

You always need a thermostat so your "I only need one thing" is actually I need to run out and buy a thermostat proportional one at that due to the nature of RHPs clicking on max and off is not a good idea. While you are at it a better hide, that wood log hide is not the best for BPs, oh and you should have two just like the care sheets say. You don't sound like a jerk you sound like you don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

Terrestrial enclosures are easier to heat with UTH systems, RHPs are great but best suited to arboreal.

[norwegn113]

Clearly you didn't read what I said correctly. I said that locating a hot spot and hide in a different location is not the way any care sheet or any authority suggests perhaps you should read a few your self as you clearly have not based on the pictures you posted. Hides are best located on the hot and cool spots so the snake does not need to choose between thermoregulating and security. Many snakes will not and remain in a secure area and not regulate at all stop feeding, digesting and die.

It also is clear that you do not understand what radiant heat is how it works or what it does. This describes radiant heat very simply. It is the little sun icon... http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/V...aspx?ID=sce304

It is what 4.6 billion years old now... Yup that is new. They have been in the hobby for what 20 years? New? I guess if 4.6 billion is. Radiant heat does not heat air. You speak like you believe there is a huge difference between Radiant floor heating and radiant ceiling heating. The difference is in the ceiling closer you are to the panel the hotter it gets. The floor the farther you are away the cooler it gets. The hot spot is set to the correct temp and with overhead it drops as you move away from this. perfect for arboreal snakes, green tree pythons for example you set the hot spot for the top most branches and the lower branches drop in temp. Exactly correct. You seem to believe that setting for the floor and having anything not on the floor over the ideal is correct. The fact is a momentary touch is not a problem true but a core temp of 104º causes permanent neurological damage. There should not be any way for a snake to get between the probe and heat source. This creates a problem with terrestrial enclosures where to place and secure the probe it cannot move but also cannot be on the floor. The best location would be glued to the face? the wall? Both will generate false positive and result in variable temps beyond the expected range.

You seem to think that RHPs use some magic method of heating when the truth is they use a carbon resistive film, heat tape, is a carbon resistive film (flexwatt) so the flexwatt in the RHP and under an enclosure are the same. The end result on ambient temps are ... the same. They both heat objects that in turn heat the air. You photo has what seems to be a block of stone perhaps that is what is heating your air temp if there were a UTH under it the result would be exactly the same. RHP were designed to heat arboreal enclosures and simply do not perform being adapted to terrestrial. I never said they didn't work just that they are not as efficient (UTH has less loss as it heats exactly what needs to be heated) and costly compared in the terrestrial set up.

Your discussion of cost savings... flexwatt is 5$ for a one foot piece and using less power. So in my estimation you spent more heating the enclosure with a RHP and higher initial price is far far higher 12 times or so. I'll take my savings and buy a good thermometer. I guess you are using a (in) accurite as a non standard way? What standard is I can't imagine. You do know your model is spec'd at +/-2ºC (just under 4ºF up or down). I measure my RHP with a ultrafast response Platinum tip RTD I can accurately measure the output of the panel directly and ambient air temps with a 'standard' shaded measurement. I am not an accountant but I figure higher initial cost (60$/40w RHP and 5$/10w heat tape.) and higher operational cost is ahhh higher cost.?

YOU DON"T HAVE A THERMOSTAT!!!! The single most important part of any and all heating systems. This is not suggested by any manufacturer of RHPs it is also not recommended by any knowledgeable keeper!


RHPs run easily to 190º mine at 14 inches during testing hit 137º this is too hot. ALL heat sources need to be regulated.

Reptile basics instructions on RHPs "If your RHP is properly set up on a thermostat you will not generally see even these temperatures"

helix controls "We recommend using a high quality thermostat, especially if the panel is to be used in an enclosed environment. A Helix Proportional Thermostat, such as the DBS-1000"

You are the only person mentioning heat lamps or CHEs. I would not suggest using either unless there was no better options, and I would never suggest a red heat lamp under any circumstances due to the nature of heat hunting snakes.

You always need a thermostat so your "I only need one thing" is actually I need to run out and buy a thermostat proportional one at that due to the nature of RHPs clicking on max and off is not a good idea. While you are at it a better hide, that wood log hide is not the best for BPs, oh and you should have two just like the care sheets say. You don't sound like a jerk you sound like you don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

Terrestrial enclosures are easier to heat with UTH systems, RHPs are great but best suited to arboreal.

Update..... Thank you for the advice, I will run right out and get some good thermostats because I thought that is what I got when I bought these but I guess not??? I will have to look into that! Listen, I specifically said that " I was not the Authority!" but i will offer my advice to this person that asked for opinions. I do refuse to get into a giant debate on this poor lady's thread. For the record.... I did mention that " these are pics from during THE BUILD and testing stage". At no point in any of my pics do you see an animal. The objects in the cage were things that i do not use in my Final setups. They were strictly in there to collect the heat and see what the absorption property of each of those items were! Things are not always what they appear to be,remember that before you go off on someone next time. Please feel free to PM me if you would like to continue this debate because I feel that we are both knowledgeable people and I value the opinions of others and appreciate a good debate, but I will not hijack another persons thread to do it! My deepest apologies Dark Lady, and if in the future you would like my advice on anything send me a message. Please post pics when your build is complete!!!!